Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds

I sincerely hope it won't be CGI. Personally I think a lot of CGI looks
dreadful. And how is it that the original series of Star Trek looks technically
superior to ST:TNG, which always looked as if it was done on video with a purple
filter on the camera!!!

Alex



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Dave_Copley <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 13 January, 2011 14:25:44
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds

 
I suspect it will be a CGI animated series, along the lines of the recent series
of Captain Scarlet.

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:




     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I really hope, in a perverse way, that this doesn't come off. The essence of Thunderbirds was the jerky puppets, the superb machines ( I still love Crablogger!!), the sheer delight in a  programme that was innocent and exciting and fun. A modern remake? I don't see how it can work.

If it's CGI it won't, it CAN'T be Thunderbirds.

And if it is live action? Well they have been there, done that..... and  the horror of the film will override any tv series.

Puppets?  I think that Team America put paid to that idea.!

 I would LOVE to see Thunderbirds return.. but I think that whatever happens, however they make it, it will never ever have that 'magic' of the original series.

Perhaps I am a pessimist.  I really want the UFO film to be made, but there is a world of difference between remaking a programme that had  actors, and reinventing such an iconic series as Thunderbirds.

My opinion only though. ( And I hope I am proved wrong)

> And how is it that the original series of Star Trek looks technically
> superior to ST:TNG, which always looked as if it was done on video
> with a purple filter on the camera!!!

That's because the original Star Trek was shot on 35mm film, while
ST:TNG was shot on film and then transferred to video for editing &
special effects. So it's easy to make HDTV versions of the original
series, but not so easy to make HDTV versions of ST:TNG, as they'd have
to redo everything from the original film elements (including redoing
all of the editing and special effects).

Seinfeld was done the same way as ST:TNG, but they've made HDTV versions
of this by going back to the original 35mm elements and reconstructing
the episodes from scratch.  At least Seinfeld had no special effects
to redo... :-)

Since UFO was shot on 35mm film, it's also an easy upgrade to HDTV.
(and has already been done once, although the one they've done so
far was cropped to widescreen).

Marc

They recently re-edited what is known as Star Trek- The Original Series with new special effects.  I once caught a episode and went... huh?? What the heck was that :)

On a Star Trek- Deep Space Nine episode, they did a continuation of one from the original series.  They did a special on how the original series was filmed, how they adjusted how they filmed ST-DS9, so when they added a DS9 actor into the original series scene, the lighting would match.

The episode they redid was "The Trouble with Tribbles"  The story goes, the DS9 producers were talking about doing this project over lunch when the pivotal actor from the original series episode walked in the same diner as they were eating :)

Without going Trekker on here, but if anyone watched the DS9 episode I am talking about, and at one point they discussed how the Klingons from the original series to the first movie looked different, they looked to Worf for a explanation, and he simply said, they don't discuss it :)

Bruce
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Marc Martin
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 3:48 PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds


   
  > And how is it that the original series of Star Trek looks technically
  > superior to ST:TNG, which always looked as if it was done on video
  > with a purple filter on the camera!!!

  That's because the original Star Trek was shot on 35mm film, while
  ST:TNG was shot on film and then transferred to video for editing &
  special effects. So it's easy to make HDTV versions of the original
  series, but not so easy to make HDTV versions of ST:TNG, as they'd have
  to redo everything from the original film elements (including redoing
  all of the editing and special effects).

  Seinfeld was done the same way as ST:TNG, but they've made HDTV versions
  of this by going back to the original 35mm elements and reconstructing
  the episodes from scratch. At least Seinfeld had no special effects
  to redo... :-)

  Since UFO was shot on 35mm film, it's also an easy upgrade to HDTV.
  (and has already been done once, although the one they've done so
  far was cropped to widescreen).

  Marc


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: ST Ds9 The trouble with Tribbles.

I saw this episode and despite DS9 being my least favourite in the long franchise, found it entertaining,  from the story and technical point of view. I have seen it twice and carries plenty of humour like the original plot. There is no explanation why Worf looks like a Klingon and the original just looks like someone with a long moustache and beard with huge eyebrows and looking more like a generic stereotype mexican bandit who likes shouting in contempoary english almost in "Edwardiam Villan" scenario. If any of that makes sense please let me know.

--- On Fri, 1/14/11, Bruce Sherman <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Bruce Sherman <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds
To: [hidden email]
Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 2:18 AM







 



 


   
     
     
      They recently re-edited what is known as Star Trek- The Original Series with new special effects.  I once caught a episode and went... huh?? What the heck was that :)



On a Star Trek- Deep Space Nine episode, they did a continuation of one from the original series.  They did a special on how the original series was filmed, how they adjusted how they filmed ST-DS9, so when they added a DS9 actor into the original series scene, the lighting would match.



The episode they redid was "The Trouble with Tribbles"  The story goes, the DS9 producers were talking about doing this project over lunch when the pivotal actor from the original series episode walked in the same diner as they were eating :)



Without going Trekker on here, but if anyone watched the DS9 episode I am talking about, and at one point they discussed how the Klingons from the original series to the first movie looked different, they looked to Worf for a explanation, and he simply said, they don't discuss it :)



Bruce

  ----- Original Message -----

  From: Marc Martin

  To: [hidden email]

  Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 3:48 PM

  Subject: Re: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds



> And how is it that the original series of Star Trek looks technically

  > superior to ST:TNG, which always looked as if it was done on video

  > with a purple filter on the camera!!!



That's because the original Star Trek was shot on 35mm film, while

  ST:TNG was shot on film and then transferred to video for editing &

  special effects. So it's easy to make HDTV versions of the original

  series, but not so easy to make HDTV versions of ST:TNG, as they'd have

  to redo everything from the original film elements (including redoing

  all of the editing and special effects).



Seinfeld was done the same way as ST:TNG, but they've made HDTV versions

  of this by going back to the original 35mm elements and reconstructing

  the episodes from scratch. At least Seinfeld had no special effects

  to redo... :-)



Since UFO was shot on 35mm film, it's also an easy upgrade to HDTV.

  (and has already been done once, although the one they've done so

  far was cropped to widescreen).



Marc



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





   
     

   
   


 



 






     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I take your point completely Marc, but there is still NO EXCUSE for a TV
series to be technically inferior to one made 20 years previously.

Alex



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 13 January, 2011 20:48:56
Subject: Re: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of
Thunderbirds

 
> And how is it that the original series of Star Trek looks technically
> superior to ST:TNG, which always looked as if it was done on video
> with a purple filter on the camera!!!

That's because the original Star Trek was shot on 35mm film, while
ST:TNG was shot on film and then transferred to video for editing &
special effects. So it's easy to make HDTV versions of the original
series, but not so easy to make HDTV versions of ST:TNG, as they'd have
to redo everything from the original film elements (including redoing
all of the editing and special effects).

Seinfeld was done the same way as ST:TNG, but they've made HDTV versions
of this by going back to the original 35mm elements and reconstructing
the episodes from scratch. At least Seinfeld had no special effects
to redo... :-)

Since UFO was shot on 35mm film, it's also an easy upgrade to HDTV.
(and has already been done once, although the one they've done so
far was cropped to widescreen).

Marc




     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think anyone at the time of ST:TNG thought that what/how they were producing was inferior in any way, just the opposite.  But, they couldn't know what formats would be existing twenty more years down the road, and how they would have to rebuild entire episodes. Nor did they care.   I find it maddening that a whole generation of kids are listening to music I know and love with 'inferior' technology, which on every level compromise the quality of what they are hearing.  Mp3s destroy the process for me, but am I just old fashioned.   I don't think so... once they hear it full fidelity they know the difference.
Another point with the remake of Thunderbirds, which no technology can ever replace, is the human element.   Gerry Anderson's involvement is something, but his former wife Sylvia, Bob Bell, David Lane, all of the amazing puppeteers, and most importantly Derek Meddings and his crew were the heart and soul of those productions.  To remake them is just to capitalize on the sentiment/popularity, the people are what made it great.


Ken

 

 


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Top <[hidden email]>
To: SHADO <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 14, 2011 8:45 am
Subject: Fw: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds


 
   
                 
I take your point completely Marc, but there is still NO EXCUSE for a TV
series to be technically inferior to one made 20 years previously.

Alex

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 13 January, 2011 20:48:56
Subject: Re: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of
Thunderbirds

 
> And how is it that the original series of Star Trek looks technically
> superior to ST:TNG, which always looked as if it was done on video
> with a purple filter on the camera!!!

That's because the original Star Trek was shot on 35mm film, while
ST:TNG was shot on film and then transferred to video for editing &
special effects. So it's easy to make HDTV versions of the original
series, but not so easy to make HDTV versions of ST:TNG, as they'd have
to redo everything from the original film elements (including redoing
all of the editing and special effects).

Seinfeld was done the same way as ST:TNG, but they've made HDTV versions
of this by going back to the original 35mm elements and reconstructing
the episodes from scratch. At least Seinfeld had no special effects
to redo... :-)

Since UFO was shot on 35mm film, it's also an easy upgrade to HDTV.
(and has already been done once, although the one they've done so
far was cropped to widescreen).

Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


   
             

 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, All,

Thursday, January 13, 2011, 11:45:30 AM, Lightcudder wrote:


If it's CGI it won't, it CAN'T be Thunderbirds.


I've got to take issue with that. CGI isn't a result, it's a tool. It's a technique. It's not whether or not it's used, it's whether or not it's used _well._

CGI done properly would give us Thunderbirds vehicles which have the look and feel gigantic, behave as if they mass in kilotons. CGI done properly could give us characters with the same appearance and proportions as the characters in the original show -- if that's what you consider desirable, as I understand Gerry Anderson does -- but without the limitations imposed on them by their strings.

Crappy CGI looks crappy. Amazing CGI looks amazing.

Instead of making the method your litmus test, how about judging the show based on its quality?

--

Jonathan Andrew Sheen

http://www.leviathanstudios.com
Leviathan of the GEI (Detached.)
[hidden email]

"What'dya expect? I'm a New Yorker!"
-Anonymous New York Firefighter, 9/12/01

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When listening to real vinyl record albums, you hear depth, not so on digitized music

Bruce
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: [hidden email]
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds


   
  I don't think anyone at the time of ST:TNG thought that what/how they were producing was inferior in any way, just the opposite. But, they couldn't know what formats would be existing twenty more years down the road, and how they would have to rebuild entire episodes. Nor did they care. I find it maddening that a whole generation of kids are listening to music I know and love with 'inferior' technology, which on every level compromise the quality of what they are hearing. Mp3s destroy the process for me, but am I just old fashioned. I don't think so... once they hear it full fidelity they know the difference.
  Another point with the remake of Thunderbirds, which no technology can ever replace, is the human element. Gerry Anderson's involvement is something, but his former wife Sylvia, Bob Bell, David Lane, all of the amazing puppeteers, and most importantly Derek Meddings and his crew were the heart and soul of those productions. To remake them is just to capitalize on the sentiment/popularity, the people are what made it great.

  Ken

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ed Top <[hidden email]>
  To: SHADO <[hidden email]>
  Sent: Fri, Jan 14, 2011 8:45 am
  Subject: Fw: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds

  I take your point completely Marc, but there is still NO EXCUSE for a TV
  series to be technically inferior to one made 20 years previously.

  Alex

  ----- Forwarded Message ----
  From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Thu, 13 January, 2011 20:48:56
  Subject: Re: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of
  Thunderbirds

  > And how is it that the original series of Star Trek looks technically
  > superior to ST:TNG, which always looked as if it was done on video
  > with a purple filter on the camera!!!

  That's because the original Star Trek was shot on 35mm film, while
  ST:TNG was shot on film and then transferred to video for editing &
  special effects. So it's easy to make HDTV versions of the original
  series, but not so easy to make HDTV versions of ST:TNG, as they'd have
  to redo everything from the original film elements (including redoing
  all of the editing and special effects).

  Seinfeld was done the same way as ST:TNG, but they've made HDTV versions
  of this by going back to the original 35mm elements and reconstructing
  the episodes from scratch. At least Seinfeld had no special effects
  to redo... :-)

  Since UFO was shot on 35mm film, it's also an easy upgrade to HDTV.
  (and has already been done once, although the one they've done so
  far was cropped to widescreen).

  Marc

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Bruce,

Friday, January 14, 2011, 11:49:07 AM, you wrote:

B> When listening to real vinyl record albums, you hear
B> depth

Well, no, you hear flaws in the recording process.

--

Jonathan Andrew Sheen

http://www.leviathanstudios.com
Leviathan of the GEI (Detached.)
[hidden email]

"What'dya expect? I'm a New Yorker!"
-Anonymous New York Firefighter, 9/12/01

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am sorry if this is OT, but it still may be of interest to some of the members - Network has a big discount on many of Anderson series on DVD (and Blu-ray).
I can testify that their DVD's and Blu-ray discs are of high quality, although I do not have all they advertise in this action. Anyone interested can get more info following this link:

http://www.networkdvd.net/index.php

All the best,
Branko
     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> When listening to real vinyl record albums, you hear depth, not so on
> digitized music

I'm not sure how we came to be discussing vinyl records and Klingons,
but I'll remind the group that this is a discussion group for Gerry
Anderson's UFO.  :-)

Marc

Speaking of vinyl and keeping on subject,
did anyone get the LP of UFO music that I think came out at the
same time Fanderson did their first CD release?

I remember seeing it on ebay. I wondered how the selections were
to conform to limited LP time and if it sounded good on vinyl.

Brian



________________________________
From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 12:08:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Vinyl Records and Klingons

 
> When listening to real vinyl record albums, you hear depth, not so on
> digitized music

I'm not sure how we came to be discussing vinyl records and Klingons,
but I'll remind the group that this is a discussion group for Gerry
Anderson's UFO.  :-)

Marc

 


     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not sure. I am a computer graphics professional myself, so I am well aware of what it takes to make this sort of thing. A few years ago I was involved in an early concept of creating a CGI Thunderbirds, and I really thought it was the way to go, but having seen the CGI Scarlet stuff which cost millions, I'm not so certain now. There was a certain quality about both the puppets and the effects in the original that the new one desperately lacked. It had all the body, but none of the soul.

Someone mentioned "Team America", and I for one thought it was brilliantly implemented. Parker & Stone are big Thunderbirds fans, and that is what inspired them to make it. Apparently the FX designers made fully functioning puppets with controllable facial features and loads of new technology, but they felt it was too much, and a bit 'creepy', so they went with the rather more low-tech versions.

I think if the Thunderbirds concept was thought through properly, without having to resort to politically correct moralising, and kept the stories simple and fun whilst using miniatures and puppets, combined with digital visual effects, they could have another hit on their hands. The important factor Thunderbirds had was it didn't preach down to children, it was an 'adult' show without the sex and violence, so to speak, so it appealed to adults too. Anderson's productions always relied on featuring the hardware, so they should continue to play on that, but without losing perspective on the characters and narrative.

THUNDERBIRDS?! F*** YEAH!! (sorry) ;)

Rob

Has anyone got the "No Strings Attached" picture disc LP? How much is it worth
now? I've got a CD of Gerry Anderson theme remixes which sounds pretty good, but
I can't remember the title of it.

Alex



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Brian Boskind <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sat, 15 January, 2011 0:07:36
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Vinyl Records and Klingons

 
Speaking of vinyl and keeping on subject,
did anyone get the LP of UFO music that I think came out at the
same time Fanderson did their first CD release?

I remember seeing it on ebay. I wondered how the selections were
to conform to limited LP time and if it sounded good on vinyl.

Brian

________________________________
From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 12:08:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Vinyl Records and Klingons

> When listening to real vinyl record albums, you hear depth, not so on
> digitized music

I'm not sure how we came to be discussing vinyl records and Klingons,
but I'll remind the group that this is a discussion group for Gerry
Anderson's UFO. :-)

Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Look how much money was spent on "Avatar" and the CGI looks crappy to me. If
people want to fool themselves into thinking CGI is superior to hand made models
then so be it. The Emperor's New Clothes springs to mind.

Alex



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Jonathan Andrew Sheen <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Fri, 14 January, 2011 16:31:31
Subject: Re: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of
Thunderbirds

 
Hi, All,

Thursday, January 13, 2011, 11:45:30 AM, Lightcudder wrote:

If it's CGI it won't, it CAN'T be Thunderbirds.

I've got to take issue with that. CGI isn't a result, it's a tool. It's a
technique. It's not whether or not it's used, it's whether or not it's used
_well._

CGI done properly would give us Thunderbirds vehicles which have the look and
feel gigantic, behave as if they mass in kilotons. CGI done properly could give
us characters with the same appearance and proportions as the characters in the
original show -- if that's what you consider desirable, as I understand Gerry
Anderson does -- but without the limitations imposed on them by their strings.

Crappy CGI looks crappy. Amazing CGI looks amazing.

Instead of making the method your litmus test, how about judging the show based
on its quality?

--

Jonathan Andrew Sheen

http://www.leviathanstudios.com
Leviathan of the GEI (Detached.)
[hidden email]

"What'dya expect? I'm a New Yorker!"
-Anonymous New York Firefighter, 9/12/01

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I so agree with you Rob. My concern re 'New' Thunderirds is that, however brilliant it is, however well made, it cannot be 'Thunderbirds'. It can be New/Improved/Whatever they want to call it,  but it won't be the same.
And yes I would LOVE it to be done in the same style as Team America. but its not going to happen.

As for the UFO film.. well that seems to have died a death.  and yet that could have been updated far more successfully I think.

It worked in reverse with StarGate, and with Highlander ( I think .. but   I might be wrong there!!) -  Successful films that transferred to  television.  Lets hope that 2012 brings us a great UFO film. I'd much prefer to see that instead of a CGI Virgil Tracy.

Thunderbirds?   Nah.. UFO?! F**** YEAH!!  ( and no apology!!) ;-)

--- In [hidden email], "Rob" <tryptych@...> wrote:

If anyone wants a reason why I fear remakes two words come to mind instantly,
Green Hornet.  However this being done by Gerry Anderson we know it won't be
turned into something that bad but he will try to make it more up to date and
there in lies the poison apple.

James K.




________________________________
From: Lightcudder <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 11:36:19 AM
Subject: Fw: [SHADO] Re: Gerry Anderson to make new TV series of Thunderbirds

 
I so agree with you Rob. My concern re 'New' Thunderirds is that, however
brilliant it is, however well made, it cannot be 'Thunderbirds'. It can be
New/Improved/Whatever they want to call it, but it won't be the same.

And yes I would LOVE it to be done in the same style as Team America. but its
not going to happen.

As for the UFO film.. well that seems to have died a death. and yet that could
have been updated far more successfully I think.


It worked in reverse with StarGate, and with Highlander ( I think .. but I might
be wrong there!!) - Successful films that transferred to television. Lets hope
that 2012 brings us a great UFO film. I'd much prefer to see that instead of a
CGI Virgil Tracy.

Thunderbirds? Nah.. UFO?! F**** YEAH!! ( and no apology!!) ;-)

--- In [hidden email], "Rob" <tryptych@...> wrote:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As far as I can tell, UFO is still being worked on, but there's been not any new info made available on their website (http://ufo-themovie.com/shado/) or at IMDb, so I'm wondering if it's maybe hit a snag or gone into Development Hell.  As I stated in an earlier post, it sounds like they're planning to do a very faithful adaptation of the series, but as with all things, if it gets made, I'll not hold my breath.

-- Jamie

--- In [hidden email], "Lightcudder" <l.oatridge@...> wrote:
>

> As for the UFO film.. well that seems to have died a death.  and yet that could have been updated far more successfully I think.
>
> It worked in reverse with StarGate, and with Highlander ( I think .. but   I might be wrong there!!) -  Successful films that transferred to  television.  Lets hope that 2012 brings us a great UFO film. I'd much prefer to see that instead of a CGI Virgil Tracy.
>
> Thunderbirds?   Nah.. UFO?! F**** YEAH!!  ( and no apology!!) ;-)

In my opinion, there are two ways of doing this:

1)Updated CGI version. Gerry did a good update of Captain Scarlet(pity ITV trashed it), the BBC have done good with Dr Who and Star Trek: The Next Generation worked as an update on the original although strictly speaking, it's a sequel series. The recent Trek movie was an enjoyable reboot.

2) Make it exactly as it was in 1965, models, wooden puppets, wires... the lot!. It might work as a period piece:).

Lets face it, Gerry rebooting Thunderbirds can't be worse than that rubbish movie.