Let's talk GRAVITY!

Okay...here's another topic for discussion: By the time UFO started shooting, didn't they know that there was no gravity on the moon?

I can overlook the fact that somehow they've got artificial gravity on moonbase (have we actually achieved that accomplishment yet in space?) but, it's almost annoying in scenes like those dramatic shots in "Survival" where Foster and the alien are out on the lunar surface. Especially, that part where they are using a cable to cross a ravine...something totally unnecessary when one or two bounces and the lack of gravity would have easily gotten them across it far faster than the cable trick.

Well, no controversy intended, but the floor is open to discussion! ;-)

Samantha
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http://www.geocities.com/starlamedra1/queenstailor.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think we did know that there was no gravity on the moon. It was hard to show no gravity in tv production terms. I may be wrong but I think some earlier shows had trampolines in certain places to simulate no gravity on the moon. I think since UFO did not have a big budget they just never mentioned it. Space 1999 mentions the gravity towers around the base. Star Trek the original series only showed no gravity in one episode. The Tholian Web with Capt. Kirk in space. Lost in Space had the first episode with no gravity but exaggerated movements. Great topic by the way.

Samantha Peterson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Okay...here's another topic for discussion: By the time UFO started shooting, didn't they know that there was no gravity on the moon?

I can overlook the fact that somehow they've got artificial gravity on moonbase (have we actually achieved that accomplishment yet in space?) but, it's almost annoying in scenes like those dramatic shots in "Survival" where Foster and the alien are out on the lunar surface. Especially, that part where they are using a cable to cross a ravine...something totally unnecessary when one or two bounces and the lack of gravity would have easily gotten them across it far faster than the cable trick.

Well, no controversy intended, but the floor is open to discussion! ;-)

Samantha
------------------------------------------------
The Queen's Tailor
http://www.geocities.com/starlamedra1/queenstailor.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Samantha Peterson" <[hidden email]>



>
> Okay...here's another topic for discussion: By the time UFO started
> shooting, didn't they know that there was no gravity on the moon?

Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that one before.
Yes, they should have known there was little gravity on the moon compared to
what's experienced on earth. You don't have to land on a planet to know what
it's gravity is; you can figure that out based on its size. (Correct me
anyone, but I think the figure is that the moon's is 1/6th of that of
earth's?)

Does anyone know if GA has ever addressed that?


>
> I can overlook the fact that somehow they've got artificial gravity on
> moonbase (have we actually achieved that accomplishment yet in space?)
> but, it's almost annoying in scenes like those dramatic shots in
> "Survival" where Foster and the alien are out on the lunar surface.
> Especially, that part where they are using a cable to cross a
> ravine...something totally unnecessary when one or two bounces and the
> lack of gravity would have easily gotten them across it far faster than
> the cable trick.

I'm wondering if my posts are vanishing into thin air, or are being "moderated" out of existence...without explanation.

All I know is that it's getting me pretty miffed.

Jeff




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:17:37 -0500
"Samantha Peterson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Okay...here's another topic for discussion: By the time UFO started
> shooting, didn't they know that there was no gravity on the moon?
>
It was well understood that the Moon's gravity was much weaker than
Earth's.

> I can overlook the fact that somehow they've got artificial gravity on
> moonbase (have we actually achieved that accomplishment yet in space?)

I don't think it's actually been done in space, but it would be
possible in theory, using a spinning craft to generate centrifugal
force (not really a force at all, but that's another story).

James

> I'm wondering if my posts are vanishing into thin air,
> or are being "moderated" out of existence...without explanation.

The only reason they would be "moderated out of existence" is
if they are clearly off-topic, or a one-liner joke that adds
nothing to the conversation, or are potentially inflammatory/
insulting to other list members.

The way the list works is that some people are moderated,
and some people aren't. This is a compromise system because
I don't really have the time or desire to moderate every
single message here (after all, there are 800 members and
I've been running this list for over 10 years). The people
who are not moderated are those who demonstrate that they
are following the posting rules of the list:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SHADO/files/rules.html

These rules are pretty standard, actually -- you *should*
be following them on most any discussion group.

Generally, people stay moderated because they reply to
messages and include the entire contents of the message
they're replying to as part of their reply (your message
here does this, so I can assume this is why you're
being moderated). However, in such cases I don't
delete the message -- I merely edit out the old message(s)
included on the bottom and forward it onto the list.
This can add up 8-12 hours for your message to get to
the list if I happen to have just gone to bed (or
gotten onto a plane) when you sent your message.

Less frequently people are moderated because they
go off-topic or post a lot of one-liners to the
list. In these cases, messages are deleted before
they make it to the list.

And very rarely, some people post things which
can cause a "flame war" on the list, which I
try to prevent before it ever gets started by
deleting insulting/offensive posts.


That all said, I don't specifically recall deleting
any of your posts, so perhaps they are vanishing
into thin air?

Marc

--- legg bryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I think we did know that there was no gravity
> on the moon. It was hard to show no gravity in tv
> production terms. I may be wrong but I think some
> earlier shows had trampolines in certain places to
> simulate no gravity on the moon.

The GA team knew that the moon's gravity is 1/6 that
of earth. I imagine it was a combination of budget and
time constraints that prevented them from trying to
achieve a 1/6 gravity look that was achieved in the
HBO mini-series From the Earth to the Moon.

I believe the From the Earth to the Moon DVD set
explains how some of the effects were achieved.



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Shouldn't that be "Less" gravity than the Earth? I thought that the moon
had a 1/16 gravity of that of the Earth? I think?


Tracy
(The 5th Horseman)
----- Original Message -----
From: "legg bryan" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Let's talk GRAVITY!


>
> I think we did know that there was no gravity on the moon.

Thanks for the reply, Marc.
OK. Here's one my "sent" mailbox clearly shows, yet was never posted.
Either it vanished, or was deemed 'inflammatory':

"I believe most, if not all of the cars in UFO are left hand drive. They also drive on the right hand side of the road. As to why, this is merely a bit of speculation. I'm guessing that Gerry Anderson thought that in the future, Brits would have advanced to the point where they would drive on the side of the road where 'normal' people drive (just a bit of humor). : ) Most of the world drives on the right side of the road, in left-hand drive cars, not hat it matters..."

Jeff
P.S. Also, I would think that an occasional one-liner joke WOULD add something to the conversation. It's called HUMOR. After all, we're only discussing a 35 year old, one-season TV series. We're not talking about matters of global importance. : )


Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:



> I'm wondering if my posts are vanishing into thin air,
> or are being "moderated" out of existence...without explanation.

The only reason they would be "moderated out of existence" is
if they are clearly off-topic, or a one-liner joke that adds
nothing to the conversation, or are potentially inflammatory/
insulting to other list members.

<SNIP>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry Marc. It did show up, and I just missed it. My mistake!
Thanks again!
Jeff

Jeffrey Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:


Thanks for the reply, Marc.
OK. Here's one my "sent" mailbox clearly shows, yet was never posted.
Either it vanished, or was deemed 'inflammatory':

"I believe most, if not all of the cars in UFO are left hand drive. They also drive on the right hand side of the road. As to why, this is merely a bit of speculation. I'm guessing that Gerry Anderson thought that in the future, Brits would have advanced to the point where they would drive on the side of the road where 'normal' people drive (just a bit of humor). : ) Most of the world drives on the right side of the road, in left-hand drive cars, not hat it matters..."

Jeff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Thanks for the reply, Marc.
> OK. Here's one my "sent" mailbox clearly shows, yet was never posted.
> Either it vanished, or was deemed 'inflammatory':
>
> "I believe most, if not all of the cars in UFO are left hand drive.

I got that post. It's even in the message archive:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/SHADO/message/16405

> P.S. Also, I would think that an occasional one-liner joke
> WOULD add something to the conversation. It's called HUMOR.

I agree. But sometimes things go a bit overboard -- like someone
who posts 5 one-liners all at once, or someone who asks a question,
4 people reply, and then then the person sends a "Thanks" reply to
all 4 messages (of course, with the unedited contents of the
original messages at the bottom).

Marc

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Samantha Peterson" <[hidden email]>
>

> >
> > Okay...here's another topic for discussion: By the time UFO started
> > shooting, didn't they know that there was no gravity on the moon?
>

> > but, it's almost annoying in scenes like those dramatic shots in
> > "Survival" where Foster and the alien are out on the lunar surface.
> > Especially, that part where they are using a cable to cross a
> > ravine...something totally unnecessary when one or two bounces and the
> > lack of gravity would have easily gotten them across it far faster than
> > the cable trick.
>


------------------------------------------------------


Well, "no gravity" is not quite the word.
You've got 5.4 ft/sec^2 on the moon vs. 32.2 on the Earth.

The reason you might still need a cable to cross a ravine like that is
given the exhausted condition of the men out there.

No 1. they are all beat up from their ordeal. The ravine might be too
wide to leap it in their depleted conditions, and, they are wearing heavy
space suits. These suits can raise their weights back up by a hundred pounds
or so, each. Plus the fact that they now have a disproportionate amount of
mass momentum compared to the weight they are dealing with, if they make a
bad landing after trying to jump the ravine, they will crack their suits or
break their bones or something like that.

The gravity/mass discrepency can make an EVA a very physically taxing
exertion when done for any length of time. Most of the Apollo astronauts
complained about how exhausting the lunar walking ordeal was, and many
suffered from overheating and dehydration from the effort. Even space
walking astronauts in zero gee complained on extreme overexertion during
their activities.

Also, any pressurised suit, by their nature, are very stiff and
inflexible at the joints when under pressure. Fighting against the suit is
very physically demanding. They've gotten better over time, but even
nowadays, 20 years after the show's timeline, they are still no walk in the
park.

I liked that episode very much. Despite many of the weaknesses of the
series and that particular episode, they did manage to convey some of the
hardships of lunar surface operation pretty well on some points; like the
sweating and condensation on the helmet visors, the astronausts heavy
breathing, and the conduction of sound by contact thru the helmets in the
end.

One little jewel for the nitpickers out there is when Foster staggers
up against a huge rock formation, you can see the whole thing move under his
weight. Styrofoam bedrock on the moon....who would imagine?

Dave H.

--- In [hidden email], "D Persica" <dennispersica@b...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Samantha Peterson" <lestat117@i...>

> >
> > Okay...here's another topic for discussion: By the time UFO
started
> > shooting, didn't they know that there was no gravity on the moon?
>
> Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that one before.
> Yes, they should have known there was little gravity on the moon
compared to
> what's experienced on earth. You don't have to land on a planet to
know what
> it's gravity is; you can figure that out based on its size.
(Correct me
> anyone, but I think the figure is that the moon's is 1/6th of that
of
> earth's?)
>
> Does anyone know if GA has ever addressed that?

OK, let's get one thing clear first of all. It's wrong to say
there's no gravity on the moon; it has 1/6th gravity of the Earth.
Second, I've read an interview where Gerry Anderson has said they
should have done more to show lower gravity on the moon but seeing
that when they shot the earlier episodes, man hadn't walked on the
moon yet and they didn't exactly know what it would look like.
Anderson went on to say that by the time they did Space:1999 they
used slow motion filming to better simulate low gravity and looking
back on it, they should have used that for UFO as well.

Nick

As a matter of fact gravity on the moon is 1/6th of the Earth. But it's still gravity. A cat or a dog can weight less than a 1/6th of a grown man like Foster here on Earth and still they walk, jump and do whatever they do without the danger of finding themselves en route out of the atmosphere. The difference of gravity doesn't seem to give humans a special capavility but to do longer or higher jumps as those seen on TV by the Apollo crews.
"2001: Space Odyssey" is one, if not the best, space movie because the care Kubrick give to the little details, and we can see that the astronauts on the moon walk "normally". So, if Foster and his alien friend need to use a cable in their journey to moonbase is because, if they don't use it, they will had a big and ugly fall into the ravine.
The question in that chapter was HOW Foster and the alien put the end of the cable between the rocks on the other side of the ravine without being they there first?


Samantha Peterson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Okay...here's another topic for discussion: By the time UFO started shooting, didn't they know that there was no gravity on the moon?

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 23:34:36 +0100 (CET)
Karl Heidenreich <[hidden email]> wrote:


> As a matter of fact gravity on the moon is 1/6th of the Earth. But
> it's still gravity. A cat or a dog can weight less than a 1/6th of a
> grown man like Foster here on Earth and still they walk, jump and do
> whatever they do without the danger of finding themselves en route out
> of the atmosphere.

Right - but their body strength is roughly proportional to their
weight, in other words - a dog with 1/6 of the weight of a human
doesn't have human strength in its leg muscles.

> The difference of gravity doesn't seem to give humans a special
> capavility but to do longer or higher jumps as those seen on TV
> by the Apollo crews.

I think it does! The Apollo crews probably wanted to avoid
performing spectacular jumps on the Moon to avoid damage to
their suits, but I'm pretty sure the same force required to
jump 1 foot into the air on Earth would provide roughly a 6
foot jump on the Moon. Possibly even very slightly more, since
there's no air resistance there.

Of course it may be that it's not possible to jump 1 foot into
the air on Earth in a bulky spacesuit such as those worn by
the Apollo crews on the Moon anyway.

--- In [hidden email], Karl Heidenreich <karlfredshado@y...>
wrote:
> The difference of gravity doesn't seem to give humans a special
capavility but to do longer or higher jumps as those seen on TV by
the Apollo crews.

Hi Karl

I read Andrew Chaikin's excellent book, "A Man on the Moon" and in
it he explains that the lack of mobility for the astronauts was due
to the suits being pressurised and stiff, and that even in 1/6th
gravity, the bulk of the suit and the backpacks affected movement.
However, there is the clip of John Young leaping up about 3' into
the air and saluting to show the lesser gravity.

> The question in that chapter was HOW Foster and the alien put the
end of the cable between the rocks on the other side of the ravine
without being they there first?

The only explanations I can find is either the alien rifle can be
adapted to throw a grappling hook or that Foster had a small
launcher in one of his suit pouches for the same purpose.

Nick

Hi.
I´m certain about the lack of mobility that space suits give to the astronauts. The thing is that, even with the lesser gravity of the moon, Fosterand the alien need a cable to save the distance imposed by the ravine because, on the contrary, it will be an obstacle they cannot cross. The lessergravity don´t give them the capability to fly like Superman.
About the issue of the end of the cable on the other side of the ravine, yes, a special dart gun with the cable attached or the alien´s rifle could be the answer. I never figured it out because it seems to me that a gadgetlike that would have been shown on the screen to avoid misinterpretations like mine. But it´s a very plausible answer.


Nick <[hidden email]> wrote:


--- In [hidden email], Karl Heidenreich
wrote:
> The difference of gravity doesn't seem to give humans a special
capavility but to do longer or higher jumps as those seen on TV by
the Apollo crews.

Hi Karl

I read Andrew Chaikin's excellent book, "A Man on the Moon" and in
it he explains that the lack of mobility for the astronauts was due
to the suits being pressurised and stiff, and that even in 1/6th
gravity, the bulk of the suit and the backpacks affected movement.
However, there is the clip of John Young leaping up about 3' into
the air and saluting to show the lesser gravity.

> The question in that chapter was HOW Foster and the alien put the
end of the cable between the rocks on the other side of the ravine
without being they there first?

The only explanations I can find is either the alien rifle can be
adapted to throw a grappling hook or that Foster had a small
launcher in one of his suit pouches for the same purpose.

Nick







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---------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Nick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I read Andrew Chaikin's excellent book, "A Man on
> the Moon" and in
> it he explains that the lack of mobility for the
> astronauts was due
> to the suits being pressurised and stiff, and that
> even in 1/6th
> gravity, the bulk of the suit and the backpacks
> affected movement.

The suits definitely affected movement, that is why
Alan Shepard could only swing the makeshift golf club
with one arm when he hit a golf ball during his moon walk.



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