RE:Fanderson UFO CD arrives!

I'm delighted to say that the
soundtack fully lived up to my
expectations, if not exceeding them.
The only disappointment I would
record is that despite a running
time of over two and a half hours it
was still not possible to include
all of Barry Gray's original music
for the show;namely
the"electro-atmospheric cues" to the
episodes: THE SOUND OF SILENCE, THE
CAT WITH TEN LIVES, THE MAN WHO CAME
BACK, THE PSYCHOBOMBS. There is a
hint that this material may well be
released in the future, along with
the Supermarionation library tracks
for the show. But it begs the
question: was a 3-disc set ever
considered? Finally, nice to see the
usual Fanderson touches:the album
compilation, package design and
contents are copyright
Fanderson/International
Astrophysical Commision!

> is a hint that this material may well be
> released in the future

What sort of hint is there that additional
music from UFO will be released?

It sounds like from what you are saying,
the 2 CD UFO soundtrack I got a few months
ago has quite a few tracks that this Fanderson
CD does not.

Marc

I'm not sure it is music per-se, the description used in the liner
notes is 'electro-atmospheres' which formed part of the cues in
cluded on the CD. It is alluded that a further CD [if produced] will a
compilation of similar type effects/music from a host of Anderson
series, and will perhaps not be a full CD worth of UFO material.

It should be noted there is substantial amount of [unreleased] music
on this CD that did not make it into the final TV edits, including a
10 minute abandoned/alternative suite from Identified. In my opinion
it quite easy to why these segmesnts were not used in the final melt.
But, it makes interesting listening non the less.

The Lunadude.


> It sounds like from what you are saying,
> the 2 CD UFO soundtrack I got a few months
> ago has quite a few tracks that this Fanderson
> CD does not.
>
> Marc

> It should be noted there is substantial amount of [unreleased]
> music on this CD that did not make it into the final TV edits,
> including a 10 minute abandoned/alternative suite from Identified

As a Barry Gray fan, I am certainly interested in hearing music from him
that I've never heard before. However, when you've got a situation where
you have more music from the series than will fit onto 2 CD's, it makes
you wonder why they would prioritize putting abandoned music over music
which was actually heard in the series!

Marc

There is no indidication they have? apart the Identified suite and
the Unexposed and Stakers theme A lot of the unreleased cues form part
of edits or larger pieces that were actually used, and all the CD does
is give you the music as played in the studio as opposed the edits
that appeared in the finished programme. I'm sure when you get the CD
it will become clear.

Having had chance to listen to the whole thing properly through
preamps, I have to say the mono mixes [at the full CD frequency] are
far superior to the rather clunky stereo remixes, I'm for one glad
they included them.

The whole package is neat, and is to be applauded.

The Lunadude


>
> As a Barry Gray fan, I am certainly interested in hearing music from
him
> that I've never heard before. However, when you've got a situation
where
> you have more music from the series than will fit onto 2 CD's, it
makes
> you wonder why they would prioritize putting abandoned music over
music
> which was actually heard in the series!
>
> Marc

> Having had chance to listen to the whole thing properly through
> preamps, I have to say the mono mixes [at the full CD frequency]
> are far superior to the rather clunky stereo remixes

I found that to be the case with their Fanderson Year One CD as well.
The best parts of the CD were the parts which were not remixed -- that
is, the suite from "The Black Sun" plus the
Chappel library tracks. This is somewhat frustrating, since
it would obviously have taken them much less time and effort
(and possibly less cost to buyers) just to release the original
mono versions. However, I think we must have a minority opinion
on this, because when this discussion took place on the Space:1999
discussion group years ago, the majority seemed to think that
stereo was better.

Marc

Marc:

Add me to the minority -- I'd much rather have the same music that appears on
the original as broadcast episode. I don't mean to dismiss any of the hard
work that went into making stereo mixes, but I think hardcore fans KNOW that
this stuff was never made in stereo -- I think hardcore fans wouldl accept
mono.

Anthony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: RE:Fanderson UFO CD arrives!
<snip>
>However, I think we must have a minority opinion
> on this, because when this discussion took place on the Space:1999
> discussion group years ago, the majority seemed to think that
> stereo was better.
>
> Marc

Hello

I consider myself something of a hardcore fan of both UFO and film/TV
soundtracks in general - I have around 1500 soundtracks in my CD collection.
I am a member of an American soundtrack club that sends out a CD to me every
month, mixed into stereo - and they do this for the fans. I would prefer
stereo over mono any time if it were available. As I said a couple of days
ago, it really brings out the clarity of the different instruments /
sections of the orchestra, as well as showing the skill of the composer in
orchestrating the music.

_________________________________________________________________
On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

"Anthony D" wrote:
> Marc:
>
> Add me to the minority -- I'd much rather have the same music that
> appears on the original as broadcast episode. I don't mean to
> dismiss any of the hard work that went into making stereo mixes,
> but I think hardcore fans KNOW that this stuff was never made in
> stereo -- I think hardcore fans wouldl accept mono.
>

But we already have good quality copies of the broadcast
versions - on the DVDs! Personally I would prefer a stereo mix,
provided it didn't alter the essential character of the music.

Barry Gray recorded the original
music for UFO in full stereo. These
multi-track master tapes are the
source for this CD-they've just been
superbly cleaned-up[digitally
re-mastered] and sound fantastic.
The music was mixed down for mono
for television broadcast.
Unfortunately the original stereo
master tapes for THE LONG SLEEP no
longer exist, so we have to make do
with the mixed down mono recordings.
How anyone can prefer the mixed down
mono to the original stereo is
beyond me, but,then, taste is a
notorious matter!-- In
[hidden email], "Anthony D"
<ad2003@j...> wrote:
> Marc:
>
> Add me to the minority -- I'd much
rather have the same music that
appears on
> the original as broadcast episode.
I don't mean to dismiss any of the
hard
> work that went into making stereo
mixes, but I think hardcore fans
KNOW that
> this stuff was never made in
stereo -- I think hardcore fans
wouldl accept
> mono.
>
> Anthony
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Martin" <marc@u...>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:00
PM
> Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re:
RE:Fanderson UFO CD arrives!
> <snip>
> >However, I think we must have a
minority opinion
> > on this, because when this
discussion took place on the
Space:1999
> > discussion group years ago, the
majority seemed to think that
> > stereo was better.
> >
> > Marc

>Barry Gray recorded the original music for UFO in full stereo.

That's a somewhat misleading statement. Barry Gray did NOT record
this music in stereo. He had 4 microphones in the studio, which were
recorded 4 isolated tracks of music. He NEVER mixed these tracks
down to stereo. He mixed them down to mono.

For this Fanderson CD, the original 4 track recordings were taken and
mixed down to stereo for the first time (except for the music for
IDENTIFIED and THE LONG SLEEP, which only exists in mono). Of
course, since we know what the music sounds like in mono, it makes it
easier to get the levels right (even though I wasn't completely
satisfied with the levels chosen for the Space:1999 CDs). But any
special effects that Barry applied to the original recordings - like
adding echo at the end of the main theme - had to be done again.
Someone sent me an MP3 of the new stereo mix of the main theme, and
it sounds like they applied an echo to the entire track, which I'm
not sure is an accurate or not. It doesn't really sound right to me,
but I reserve judgement until I hear the original CD on my stereo
system.

Marc

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@u...> wrote:
> >Barry Gray recorded the original music for UFO in full stereo.
>
> That's a somewhat misleading statement. Barry Gray did NOT record
> this music in stereo. He had 4 microphones in the studio, which
were
> recorded 4 isolated tracks of music. He NEVER mixed these tracks
> down to stereo. He mixed them down to mono.

Correct Marc, except of course there would have probably been many
microphones and/or line feeds from the various instruments which
would have been "grouped" down to four channels for the 4-track
recorder. If you take The Beatles recordings as an example, up to
1968 much more care (sometimes with the Beatles themselves in
attendance) was taken over the MONO mixes, with the stereo ones being
done very quickly later on - and this for an LP release.

Even though 4-track recordings were made of the UFO music, and 8-
track on Space 1999, they would have still been thinking of MONO all
the way as the final product (being a TV series).

Personally, if I'd been re-mixing any of these 4-track recordings
into stereo, after the initial placing of the instruments (panning) I
would then monitor the mix in MONO while adjusting levels - so as to
remain reasonably faithful to the original balance of the individual
tracks.

> But any
> special effects that Barry applied to the original recordings -
like
> adding echo at the end of the main theme - had to be done again.
> Someone sent me an MP3 of the new stereo mix of the main theme, and
> it sounds like they applied an echo to the entire track, which I'm
> not sure is an accurate or not.

I was going to say I'm sure the folks at Fanderson know what they're
doing but your statement here Marc is slightly worrying.

Jonathan

I think I'll wait till Marc gets his CDs. As an owner of the 1999 Y1 CD, he
will be able to "compare and contrast" the two. I haven't listened to my 1999
CD in a while, but the opening theme is slightly "off" to me (do you concur
Marc?) and as such is a bit disappointing. Maybe I need to listen to it in my
car (stereo)?? I was listening to it mainly on my PC which has OK sound
quality (I'm not a sound buff by any means -- but I think I know what the 1999
theme "should" sound like after 25+ years :).

Anthony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:18 AM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: RE:Fanderson UFO CD arrives!


> >Barry Gray recorded the original music for UFO in full stereo.
>
> That's a somewhat misleading statement. Barry Gray did NOT record
> this music in stereo. He had 4 microphones in the studio, which were
> recorded 4 isolated tracks of music. He NEVER mixed these tracks
> down to stereo. He mixed them down to mono.
<snip>> Marc

>I think I'll wait till Marc gets his CDs. As an owner of the 1999 Y1 CD, he
>will be able to "compare and contrast" the two. I haven't listened to my 1999
>CD in a while, but the opening theme is slightly "off" to me (do you concur
>Marc?) and as such is a bit disappointing.

As I recall, the problem I had with the Space:1999 Year One main
theme stereo mix is that they put in instruments which were never
audible in the original (a piano, I believe). At the time, people
exclaimed "you can hear things that you could never hear before!",
but this ignores the fact that this isn't really faithful to the
original. In the original mix, the piano was (presumably) removed
from the final mix on purpose. Fanderson added it back in. Sort of
a "more is better" attitude perhaps, or "if we CAN do it, then will
WILL do it". Not "let's try to make this stereo mix sound as
faithful as possible to the original". That's what really frustrates
me about these stereo mixes -- it isn't simply that they are in
stereo, it's that the levels of the individual instruments don't
sound right.

There's another track on that Space:1999 Year One CD that really
annoys me -- it's from "A Matter of Life and Death" I think, where
there is a chase scene or something. The electric guitar sounded
prominent in the original episode. On the stereo mix, you can barely
hear the electric guitar. To me, that track is ruined. They would
have been much better off just using the original mono mix.

Marc

I'll add my penneth'worth here, Marc is quite correct the studio
recordings were NOT stereo! Also, the final recordings were NEVER EVER
intended to be in stereo. Barry Gray would have been thinking about
the finished product as being in mono from the outset. I also think it
is highly unlikely these tracks were recorded as [true] multi-track
recordings, four track perhaps - Multi track and four track are a
quite different formats. Multi-track facilities were very thin on on
the ground in 1969. Certainly Pye Studio No 2 did'nt have multi track
facilties until much later. This is why a lot of artist on the Pye
roster used relocate to Morgan Studios.

It is entirely likely that the four track recordings, once they had
been mixed to mono, would have perhaps even been been compressed to
take into account the limited frquency range of audio facilities of TV
before being added to the sound mags of the film.

If there was ever an intention to produced a 'proper' stereo mix at
the time, Barry Gray would have still had to carry out mono reduction
excersise before the soundtrack was transplanted onto the film.

I would also point out that Barry Gray was notthe only artist that
recycled studio. It was very expensive commodity and many artist or
record company had a similar policy.

Let's keep this debate in context it is nice package and well
produced, the mono mixes in my opinion are far superior to the stereo
mixes and I'm for one glad they are included. I would have preffered
more, but as alluded in the liner notes they seem to have either been
lost or the tape reused.

As Phil Spector said "Back To Mono"

The Lunadude.


.

My statement is not misleading,
Marc. If you record 4 isolated
tracks of music onto a multi-track
master tape, as Barry Gray did, that
is a stereo recording. These are
what Fanderson have sourced, not the
mixed down mono tapes for TV
broadcast[except for THE LONG SLEEP]
and rightly so. Now I can't comment
on the SPACE:1999 year one CD as I
don't have it, but Fanderson have
done a superb job on this CD and I'm
sure the vast majority of purchasers
will agree. Hopefully, you will get
your copy soon, Marc, and then we
can begin this discussion proper.---

> > How anyone can prefer the mixed down
> > mono to the original stereo is
> > beyond me, but,then, taste is a
> > notorious matter!-- In


Quite simply, the mono versions display a subtlety and artistry and
overall cohesive sound that the stereos don't.

The Lunadude.

"the_connoisseuruk" wrote:

> My statement is not misleading, Marc. If you record 4 isolated
> tracks of music onto a multi-track master tape, as Barry Gray did,
> that is a stereo recording.

That's not true. The number of tracks on the original master
tape is immaterial - different sources are recorded to separate
tracks on multitrack tape so that they can be processed in
isolation from the others. Such recordings only become 'stereo'
recordings when they are mixed into two channels, intended to
provide a stereo mix when played through left & right speakers.

By your logic, a 24-track master would be a .. er well let's say a
6-track master would be a 'hexaural' recording.

Without wishing to be rude, Marc is right you are wrong. The music was
never mixed to stereo in the first place. The Fanderson notes call
these tracks stereo remixes which is entirely correct. Perhaps, are my
technically correct way to have phrased it would have been to call
them 2002 or 2003 remixes.

Those that suggest just flicking the mono switch on stereo's turn
them into the mono versions that is also not correct either - you end
just hearing the the stereo mixes in mono which is entirely different
than listening to Barry Gray's mono vesrions.

If Fanderson did have more of the mono mixdown masters and did'nt use
them that was sad, and in my humble opinion was not a wise option.
If they did'nt exist and the only option was to use use the raw
4 track studio masters - that is fine. The mono masters are Barry
Grays finished art and every effort should put into presenting them as
such. As Marc suggested maybe a 3 disc set would have a nice idea and
they could have stick all the 2002/3 stereo remixes on one of the
discs.

I think the analogy between the mono - stereo and the colourisation of
black and films is a good one. The colourisation was a abomination.

The Lunadude.




--- In [hidden email], "the_connoisseuruk" <peter.tessmer@n...>
wrote:

The word "remix" is never used in
the Fanderson notes to this CD.
Also, the suggestion of a 3 disc set
was mine, not Marc's, so they could
have included all of Barry Gray's
original music and the
Supermarionation library tracks used
in the show