RE: crappy UFO eps

As a further to my last post - I submit that poor creative integrity in
producing eps like "Reflections", "Cat with 10 Lives", "Timelash" et al is
what led to UFO's demise. The problem was, that unlike TOS, there was not a
large enough pool of GOOD eps to choose from to keep the show in syndication
and therefore provide an opportunity for a groundswell of support - like TOS
got. If you have 26 eps and half of them stink, that doesn't leave you with
much leverage to convince distributors to buy the show for what is called in
the industry "stripping" - which means an eps of the show is run either
every day at the same time, or every week at the same time on Saturdays or
Sundays. TOS had 79 eps to offer, even tho some were mindbendingly awful.
But, it could be stripped, and its later incarnations once they were in
syndication, are even better for that process because they are over 100 eps
each.

UFO was hard done by alot of its writers with poor consistency, bad science
and just plain poor ideas. When UFO was done well, as in "Sub-Smash" for
instance, the characters gelled, the miniatures and sets were convincing,
and the story rose well above the situation and gave us good entertainment
value. I think UFO's potential, not its reality, is what keeps us interested
in the show 32 yrs later!

Pam




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As an American I have never seen the entire series. I only saw a few
episodes on a local channel before they dissappeared into syndication
oblivion. I am, therefore, all the more confused.

Pam calls Timelash one of the worst episodes but it received the most
votes for best episode in the polls. Strangely enough, this was one
of the few I did see and I vaguely remember it as being very
interesting but rather flawed and at times strange.

The only other episode I remember was E.S.P. which I still have fond
memories of.

Can someone explain the reasons for the drastically differing
opinions. I have found a place to buy some episodes (video trading)
but I don't know which episodes to look for. Now I am even more
biwildered.

What would y'all's votes be for best and worst episodes and why?

>Pam McCaughey" <[hidden email]>
wrote:
If you have 26 eps and half of them stink, that doesn't leave you with
>much leverage to convince distributors to buy the show for what is called
>in
>the industry "stripping" UFO was hard done by alot of its writers with poor
>consistency, bad science
>and just plain poor ideas.

Pam, You're absolutely correct. I'm a diehard UFO fan and so I have all the
episodes on VHS and plan to get them on DVD. But I'll only watch 13 out of
the 26 and even among those few, I have my favorites. The storytelling was
way too uneven and it's obvious to me (being a ST fan as well) that there
was no continuity bible to keep even little things like Straker drinking/not
drinking clear to the audience. And you really can't have mistakes like
that happening if you're trying to reach an intelligent audience. I've
heard it said that the cast replacements for the final eps also turned
people off, which it was bound to do when more than one of the show's fav
characters suddenly disappear! Just poor planning on Anderson's part. That
approach might (and I say that guardedly) work with the kiddies, but adults
want even the most far out sci-fi to make some sense. And I won't even
comment on what they did to the original format for the aliens! It simply
begs the question: where's the continuity?

When UFO was done well, as in "Sub-Smash" for
>instance, the characters gelled, the miniatures and sets were convincing,
>and the story rose well above the situation and gave us good entertainment
>value. I think UFO's potential, not its reality, is what keeps us
>interested
>in the show 32 yrs later!

I agree again. UFO had tremendous potential. And what a premise! One of
the guys mentioned that he thought the premise too narrow. Are you kidding?
Aliens using humans for spare parts? One lone secret organization to
fight them off? I can immediately think of a million ideas for such a
premise. And the characters they came up with for the series added even
more opportunities. Anderson gave us *real* people waging a grim war
against impossible odds. What couldn't they have done with that show?!?!?

The main fault lay in no continuity. No continuous director, no continuous
script writer, no continuous anything! Shows that last for season after
season don't just happen. They take careful planning and organization to
appear polished before the critical public.

I think a second season of UFO would have killed the show for good and done
a lot more damage to its credibility with the fans. (Shall we compare it to
1999's second season? Enough said.) And I'm rather concerned that a second
UFO series (or even movie) might do the same thing. Face it, guys. 30
years have passed. Sci-fi isn't what it used to be. In some ways that's
good. We now have cool special effects and no ceiling on the subject matter
of the storyline. But those very things would probably be the downfall of a
series that was always so firmly based on its character development as UFO
was. A strong producer/director team might pull it off with all the finesse
of the best UFO episodes. But the odds aren't good for that happening.
(For examples of what I mean, refer to any and/or all of the recent TV show
remakes into movies.) So in the end, UFO remains strong in our memories
because its intiguing premise and its compassionate characterizations kept
our imaginations hopping. Which is also why fanfic for UFO is so prevalent
and varied!
Yours,
Denise

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

"hazekel" wrote:

> Pam calls Timelash one of the worst episodes but it received the most
> votes for best episode in the polls. Strangely enough, this was one
> of the few I did see and I vaguely remember it as being very
> interesting but rather flawed and at times strange.
>

I agree with Pam that Timelash is poor, very substandard indeed
compared to the the majority of UFO episodes. It's just one of
those 'love it or hate it' things, I guess. It doesn't have the
classic atmosphere, or the excitement of earlier episodes, but
it does have an eccentrically wacky feel which I suppose has a
certain charm for some.

I have to say Denise is absolutely "rat own" about UFO's inherent lack of
continuity, which I see as part of the creative integrity problem faced by
the series. Yes, the series had some good eps and showed some real promise,
but was killed due to a lack of care and concern for the characters and the
original premise. As she says: "The main fault lay in no continuity. No
continuous director, no continuous script writer, no continuous anything!
Shows that last for season after season don't just happen. They take
careful planning and organization to appear polished before the critical
public."

The kind of continuity UFO needed might have come from a series "bible" as
Trek and other more modern shows have had. Only if Gerry A. and his cohorts
had vastly improved the story quality would a second season of UFO have been
worth watching. I have never had a quibble with the acting, as others have
had, and for its time, the special effects and miniature work was fabulous
(kudus to the gent who went on to do fab work in this vein for the James
Bond series of films). It had all the hallmarks of worthwhile s-f. Bad
scripts, and poor continuity, as Denise points out, sank UFO as surely as
the iceburg sank the Titanic.

Pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi James and all - The reason I poo-poo Timelash is because of its extreme
illogic and bad science. Same for Reflections, Cat with 10 Lives - all the
bad eps seem to suffer from the same lacks. I currently own 6-8 eps of UFO
on videotape. I don't plan on buying DVDs and if I do eventually purchase
them, they will be the same eps I now possess on VT. The reason? I now have
all the eps I preferred from the series. It doesn't say much when out of 26
eps available, I only want 6-8 of them, does it?

I've also done the same with Trek - I only tape or buy the eps I like and
think good quality. I don't get 'em all "just to have them all."

Last word on the subject for now - I've read some fan fiction on the
shadolibrary which is better than some of the real eps! Pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Pam McCaughey" wrote:

> As she says: "The main fault lay in no continuity. No continuous
> director, no continuous script writer, no continuous anything!

.
.

> Bad scripts, and poor continuity, as Denise points out, sank UFO
> as surely as the iceburg sank the Titanic.
>


I full agree, though I would add bad acting to the mix as well.
Never was a series with such a fantastic premise and design let down
by shoddy scriptwriting, inconsistent ideas and mediocre acting.

That it remains exciting, compulsive viewing thirty years later is a
testament to the genius of the original idea and the brilliance of
the special effects and models.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pam McCaughey" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:53 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: the best and the crudiest UFO eps


> Hi James and all - The reason I poo-poo Timelash is because of its extreme
> illogic and bad science. Same for Reflections, Cat with 10 Lives - all the
> bad eps seem to suffer from the same lacks.


....And yet, to me, Timelash and also The Cat With Ten Lives were two of the
*best* of the series. One mans meat is another mans poison eh??? As far as
I'm concerned, illogic and bad science do not necessarily make a bad story.
And I liked these two principally because they were well written,well
performed and staged and generally good entertainment. (Unlike such poop as
CloseUp for example....)

Simon

Jee!
Had to check if someone had subscribed me to the "I hate UFO" list!
Or to the "Star Trek" was perfect list!

<blink>

--Anny
the ST-TOS die-hard fan who flushed it when she rediscovered UFO
<wondering if the "Kirk-gal-of-the-week" was a continuity problem or a very
hard case of "Satyrism" at work>
8-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pam McCaughey" <[hidden email]>

> Last word on the subject for now - I've read some fan fiction on the
> shadolibrary which is better than some of the real eps! Pam

Indeed. As there are some real eps better than some of the fan fic...

One thing is sure: not everybody agrees on what's good and what's crap.
That makes life interesting and adds some variety.

--Anny
:-1

No Anny
You are still on Marc UFO list. Just some *some* Fans stray in their love of
the series. Just because some of us like it all and others only like certain
parts of it doesn't mean they aren't fans. As they say "beauty is in the
eye of the beholder".

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>

> No Anny
> You are still on Marc UFO list. Just some *some* Fans stray in their love
of
> the series. Just because some of us like it all and others only like
certain
> parts of it doesn't mean they aren't fans. As they say "beauty is in the
> eye of the beholder".

Thanks for reassuring me, James! ;-)

One thing is certain: since I got the DVDs, I'm learning to appreciate the
whole thing even more! Can't wait for the other eps I loved to come out...
Like the awful Timelash, Subsmash and the like!

--Anny
8-)

>Can't wait for the other eps I loved to come out...
>Like the awful Timelash, Subsmash and the like!

>--Anny
>8-)

I guess you'll just have to be like me take a deep breathe and force yourself
to wait them for the model work. :-)

anyone believing the above who is interested in a beach front condon on the
moon see me off group :-)

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>"Anny Theberge" <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>One thing is sure: not everybody agrees on what's good and what's crap.
>That makes life interesting and adds some variety.

You've got that right, Anny! Which is why a poll of which ep is the best
will only cause WWIII! Pssst! BTW, I LOVE Timelash, so go figure! I'm
just a sucker for a lean body in action. *sigh*
Denise

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

hazekel wrote:

> As an American I have never seen the entire series. I only saw a few
> episodes on a local channel before they dissappeared into syndication
> oblivion. I am, therefore, all the more confused.
>
> Pam calls Timelash one of the worst episodes but it received the most
> votes for best episode in the polls. Strangely enough, this was one
> of the few I did see and I vaguely remember it as being very
> interesting but rather flawed and at times strange.

Well, Timelash has some time problems, obviously, but it has great
action, great dialog and Straker looking great all disheveled - a sort
of Straker against the aliens sort of episode. People who like Straker
like this ep.

(The problem is, time was stopped at the studio for hours. when it was
night outside, it was still daylight at the studio grounds. So ... when
time resumed - what happened? Did it instantly become night at the
studio and how do you explain that to the studio personnel? Or did it
remain day while the rest of the world was night - thus making the
studio a permanent time warp - and how do you explain THAT to the studio
personnel?)

> The only other episode I remember was E.S.P. which I still have fond
> memories of.

Yes, I liked that ep too.

> Can someone explain the reasons for the drastically differing
> opinions.

Some people require scientific accuracy, while others enjoy character
developement - personal taste ...

> I have found a place to buy some episodes (video trading)
> but I don't know which episodes to look for. Now I am even more
> biwildered.
>
> What would y'all's votes be for best and worst episodes and why?

Several are best:
Kill Straker - the interaction between Straker & Foster
Timelash - Disheveled Straker
Ordeal - Foster almost naked in the sauna <gaaaaaaahhhhhh>

Worst:
Cat with Ten Lives - Mistreatment of the poor Siamese cat
Sound of Silence - I never really understood it


Well, as you can see - very personal choices ..... <ahem - blush>

-- Y

--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Yuchtar zantai-Klaan | [hidden email]
I am not a number! I am a FREE FAN!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"An apple a day keeps the, uh ....
No, never mind."
-- Doctor Who
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://yuchtar.users4.50megs.com/
http://nunzie.users2.50megs.com/

CONTENTS DELETED

Pam said : "I now have all the eps I preferred from the series. It
doesn't say much when out of 26 eps available, I only want 6-8 of
them, does it?"

Actually, Rod Serling himself said that he only liked a third of the
Twilight Zone episodes and thought a third were "dogs."

The test of a good show is not PER SE the number of good episodes
(although this obviously helps) but what the quality of the average
third are. In Twilight Zone, even the average and forgettable
episodes are worth watching. Gerry Anderson shows, from what I have
seen, has some TERRIFIC episodes and stories but also had a number of
REALLY BAD ones. The problem with GA shows was the ability (or lack
thereof) to maintain a level of excellence. One got the feeling that
episodes were rushed through. Had he taken the time to work out the
problems on UFO, Space : 1999, and even Space Precinct he would have
had some truly classic series (of course, they are still classics,
aren't they)?

David (Texas, USA)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hemmings, R.K." <[hidden email]>


> Hi Anny :)

'LO! :-D

> Just to let you know that Blackstar are taking pre-orders
> for the (PAL) UFO Box set 2:
> http://www.blackstar.co.uk/video/item/7000000070340
> as are Play.com:
> http://play.com/Play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=99389

WHOOOOOOHOOHOHOOOOO!!!
<dancing like a football player at touch down>
Yesyesyes!

Thanks!
<whoosssssshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing chez Blackstar to pre-order>

--Happy Anny
P.S.
BTW, the Dirty Vicar asks, out of the blue, if someone on the list knows how
to program in the theme from "The Saint" on a Motorola 120c.
<blink>

I'll have to ask why not the UFO theme, I guess.

CONTENTS DELETED

Dear Mark and other UFO fans:

I don't feel we should have to apologize for our fondness for a "mere" TV
show. I think what happens is that some shows outlast their original time
and people develop an interest in them that lasts for years. Those shows
have something to offer. Why do people still watch B&W eps of the Twilight
Zone? Because they had something to say, make us think, etc. Same is
obviously true with Star Trek - I just picked up an interesting little tome
called "The Ethics of Star Trek" - written by a philosophy prof - but not
dumbed down or patronizing..... but I digress.....

The point is, UFO, X-Files, TZ, Trek, et al are so well done, and have such
substance to them in their various eps and incarnations, that what they have
to say is picked up and endorsed by groups of people all over the world.
That doesn't mean that some are not crappy. Indeed, some are. But, the
contention is who thinks which eps is crappy? Some people may actually like
"Spock's Brain" for all I know! Over all, though, the longevity of a series
on TV or a series of books by a particular author or group of writers, comes
about because the work carries in it the seed of something worthwhile,
something with a message, or a premise that appeals. Something special.
Something rarely seen before. I think of all GA's creations, UFO is the one
that had the most promise, the most interesting background. I know shows
have been developed recently based on ideas from Gene Roddenberry (Andromeda
and Earth: Final Conflict) - but somehow they just don't cut the mustard the
way Trek did. The characters are not cohesive, the storylines don't tell me
anything about the human condition at all. Without Gene's real-life
involvement, the shows don't have any ooomph it seems (but of course that's
just MY humble perception!!). Some people pour all their best creative
energy into one item which grabs the public by the heart - Rod Serling did
other things but is chiefly remembered for TZ, Spielburg will be remembered
mostly for his s-f, George Lucas for Star Wars, Roddenberry for Trek, GA for
UFO.

Pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]