Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or more fleshed out ideas

I think you're right, Deb.  The pilot set up a precedent that wasn't continued throughout the rest of the series.  Thanks for making that point.  It's easy to let such things cloud everything else about a character.  (As Matt mentioned.)  Now I won't feel so out-of-the-box when I write Ford as competent. *grin*
Yours,
Denise

--- In [hidden email], "Deborah Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:

I always assumed it had to do with not wanting to lose control in any situation.  Straker's so uptight that it's easy to believe that reason for him not to drink.  I'm not sure if he ever stated anything along those lines in an episode, though.
Yours,
Denise

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:

I always considered it a matter of personal choice, we did see him drink on one or two occasions, not what I would expect to see if he had a problem.

In one of my verses, Straker's father had a bout with alcoholism after he learned his wife was terminaly ill. Straker was of age by then, so I don't portray it as cause and effect.

Matt :)

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:

i thought it might be a test pilot going for the gold kinda thing.
jim

From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or more fleshed out ideas


 
We're not given a reason except that he chooses not to.

Some people have speculated that he or a member of his family had issues
with alcoholism, but I doubt Alec would be joking with Straker about
drinking if Straker was an alcoholic. I also doubt Straker would have been
given command of SHADO if he had that problem. Most likely, Straker just
doesn't like the taste of alcohol and doesn't like getting drunk. (Some
people don't.)

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of .
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible
or more fleshed out ideas

is there a reason why straker doesnt drink?
jim

From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email] <mailto:momkat%40dandello.net>
>
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible
or more fleshed out ideas

OR, since Straker picking on Ford is in the same episode (the pilot) that
Straker treats Freeman like a peon rather than a close associate, the real
explanation is that the writers hadn't gotten a handle on the characters yet
and they needed someway for Straker to give the necessary fill-in-the-blanks
expository about HQ and the studio.

Within the fictional context, Straker was just having a seriously bad day
because Identified is the *only* episode where Straker treats Ford or
Freeman so badly. Ford is shown as being a very competent operative in every
other episode he's in and is 'one of the best people' Straker takes with him
to Moonbase in Close Up. There's no other indication in any other episode
that Straker has anything other than the highest respect for Ford's
competence. In fact, the one other episode where Ford *should* have been
yelled at (Responsibility Seat), Straker lets it slide. (But then, Ford's
voice over the intercom was simply a plot device and should never have
happened at all. The intercom connection from HQ should have simply buzzed,
forestalling any security issue. What if Straker hadn't been alone in the
office when Ford buzzed?)

_____

From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of .
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:06 AM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible
or more fleshed out ideas

maybe straker gets better work out of him if he picks on him.
or maybe straker isnt perfect and picks on him because he likes to?
jim

From: Neesierie <[hidden email] <mailto:neesierie%40hotmail.com>
<mailto:neesierie%40hotmail.com> >
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:32 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or
more fleshed out ideas

Nice summation, Matt. That's the way I read those characters too. Now the
Straker/Ford dynamic was the one that always puzzled me. Here was a guy at a
very important post, so he had to have been extremely intelligent and
trustworthy. But Straker treats him for the most part like a total idiot.
Maybe their personalities just didn't jibe, but surely in that case, the
commander would have replaced him with someone he did like? I dunno. I never
could figure it out.
Yours,
Denise

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Matt"
<ka1bqp@...> wrote:
>
> The Ed/Alec dynamic was unique for several reasons, the biggest one being
that they had known each other for a very long time. In fact, the episode
"Identified" seemed to miss the fact that they were close friends. In that
episode, Straker treated him as a subordinate and not a confidant IMO. I
attribute that to the writers not yet having a handle on the characters, or
their backstories. I agree, once the writer's had got a handle on the
relationship, Alec was a perfect foil for Ed providing a steady persence of
humanity.
>
> Foster could not fill that role as his relationship with the Commander was
more a teacher/student dynamic, at least to me. They were both test pilots,
(Straker was an astronaut, therefore he was also a test pilot.) which gave
them common ground. The seasoned veteran vs. the brash newcomer. By no means
does this make Foster a dummy, as test pilots often held advanced degrees in
aeronautics. While the two men were friends, it was unlikely that they would
be drinking buddies. (Especially since Straker so seldom indulged.) Although
they did play golf together on at least one occasion.
>
> The relationship between Straker and Lake, given a chance to evolve, would
have been a whole new ball game. When the series ended, the writer's had
just started to get a handle on her personality and it would have been
interesting to see how it would have developed. A M/F working relationship
opens a new set of possiblities, everything from close comradeship to UST
and possibly a romantic involvement. (Many different opinions about that!
*grin*) Like Sewell, Ventham also had good onscreen chemistry with Bishop
and that trait was evident in their portrayal of the characters. With both
of them holding advanced science degrees, they would connect on an
intellectual plane. It's generally assumed that Straker and Lake never met
before she came to SHADO so she doesn't have the long history that Straker
had with Freeman. One very big difference between Freeman and Lake was the
way each of them communicated with the commander. While Freeman was very
vocal
(sometimes loudly), communications between Lake and Straker was often non
verbal, like the look she gave him when he ordered Regan back to duty after
the loss of his wife. Ginny got her message through, loud and clear! By the
same token, in "The Long Sleep" at the end, Ed stops and looks at her, they
say nothing to each other but you can tell a conversation has taken place.
And as she watches him walk away in solitude, we see her hesitate at first,
followed by a decisive moment. You can almost hear her thoughts, "Face this
alone? Like hell!"
>
> Just my nickel's worth.
>
> Matt :)
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes, I was thinking the same. what about the episode where he holds the rock and starts imagining things?

Bruce

From: Neesierie
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or more fleshed out ideas

 
I always assumed it had to do with not wanting to lose control in any situation. Straker's so uptight that it's easy to believe that reason for him not to drink. I'm not sure if he ever stated anything along those lines in an episode, though.
Yours,
Denise

--- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I always felt he didn't want to risk impairing his faculties. He wants
to remain in control. Doesn't he say something to that effect in one ep?
Can't remember which and I may have dreamed it anyway - all too often I
distinctly remember something from an ep only to find it's not there
when I go back to re-watch. I think someone comes along periodically and
refilms everything just ever so slightly differently ...

Pesky aliens.

Y



Deborah Rorabaugh wrote:


--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Yuchtar zantai-Klaan | [hidden email]
    I am not a number! I am a FREE FAN!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "An apple a day, keeps the, uh ...
           No, never mind."
                 -- Doctor Who
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.yuchtar.com/

Yeah he does;

In one episode, Alec asks him, "You never touch it, do you?"

Straker responds, "Self control."

I want to say it was in "Identified", towards the end, but I'm not sure.

Matt :)

--- In [hidden email], Yuchtar <yuchtr@...> wrote:

Oddly enough, the uptight idea comes from Foster in Kill Straker! - 'The ice
cold computer mind of Commander Straker can rationalize his troubles away.'

But Straker doesn't deny it. He just doesn't respond.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Neesierie
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 12:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or
more fleshed out ideas

 

 

I always assumed it had to do with not wanting to lose control in any
situation. Straker's so uptight that it's easy to believe that reason for
him not to drink. I'm not sure if he ever stated anything along those lines
in an episode, though.
Yours,
Denise

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce
Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:
>
> they never explained it, personal preference? There was the one remark by
Freeman when he sees Straker poring a drink, and Freeman is surprised,
Straker doesn't know what he is talking about, then remarks, oh, this is for
you.
>
> Bruce
>
> From: .
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:25 AM
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  
> Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible
or more fleshed out ideas
>
>
> is there a reason why straker doesnt drink?
> jim
>
> From: Deborah Rorabaugh <mailto:momkat%40dandello.net>
> To: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:21 AM
> Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible
or more fleshed out ideas
>
>
> OR, since Straker picking on Ford is in the same episode (the pilot) that
> Straker treats Freeman like a peon rather than a close associate, the real
> explanation is that the writers hadn't gotten a handle on the characters
yet
> and they needed someway for Straker to give the necessary
fill-in-the-blanks
> expository about HQ and the studio.
>
> Within the fictional context, Straker was just having a seriously bad day
> because Identified is the *only* episode where Straker treats Ford or
> Freeman so badly. Ford is shown as being a very competent operative in
every
> other episode he's in and is 'one of the best people' Straker takes with
him
> to Moonbase in Close Up. There's no other indication in any other episode
> that Straker has anything other than the highest respect for Ford's
> competence. In fact, the one other episode where Ford *should* have been
> yelled at (Responsibility Seat), Straker lets it slide. (But then, Ford's
> voice over the intercom was simply a plot device and should never have
> happened at all. The intercom connection from HQ should have simply
buzzed,
> forestalling any security issue. What if Straker hadn't been alone in the
> office when Ford buzzed?)
>
> _____
>
> From: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of . <mailto:neesierie%40hotmail.com> >
> To: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:32 PM
> Subject: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or
> more fleshed out ideas
>
> Nice summation, Matt. That's the way I read those characters too. Now the
> Straker/Ford dynamic was the one that always puzzled me. Here was a guy at
a
> very important post, so he had to have been extremely intelligent and
> trustworthy. But Straker treats him for the most part like a total idiot.
> Maybe their personalities just didn't jibe, but surely in that case, the
> commander would have replaced him with someone he did like? I dunno. I
never
> could figure it out.
> Yours,
> Denise
>
> --- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Matt"
> <ka1bqp@> wrote:
> >
> > The Ed/Alec dynamic was unique for several reasons, the biggest one
being
> that they had known each other for a very long time. In fact, the episode
> "Identified" seemed to miss the fact that they were close friends. In that
> episode, Straker treated him as a subordinate and not a confidant IMO. I
> attribute that to the writers not yet having a handle on the characters,
or
> their backstories. I agree, once the writer's had got a handle on the
> relationship, Alec was a perfect foil for Ed providing a steady persence
of
> humanity.
> >
> > Foster could not fill that role as his relationship with the Commander
was
> more a teacher/student dynamic, at least to me. They were both test
pilots,
> (Straker was an astronaut, therefore he was also a test pilot.) which gave
> them common ground. The seasoned veteran vs. the brash newcomer. By no
means
> does this make Foster a dummy, as test pilots often held advanced degrees
in
> aeronautics. While the two men were friends, it was unlikely that they
would
> be drinking buddies. (Especially since Straker so seldom indulged.)
Although
> they did play golf together on at least one occasion.
> >
> > The relationship between Straker and Lake, given a chance to evolve,
would after
> the loss of his wife. Ginny got her message through, loud and clear! By
the
> same token, in "The Long Sleep" at the end, Ed stops and looks at her,
they
> say nothing to each other but you can tell a conversation has taken place.
> And as she watches him walk away in solitude, we see her hesitate at
first,
> followed by a decisive moment. You can almost hear her thoughts, "Face
this




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't usually jump in on discussions of fictional character's psychology because... well they're fictional, but the writer's motives for making the character behave in a particular way is another matter.

I suspect that Straker's non-drinking is mainly to reinforce the impression that he is a tightly-wound character with a tragic back story, dedicated to his job/vocation, overburdened with responsibility and who fears any loss of self control.

Also don't forget that Freeman was intended to be Straker's foil throughout the series. You always want major differences between such characters in order to generate conflict. Otherwise they would be agreeing with each other all the time, which kills the drama.
Freeman is naturally easy-going, affable, confident, relaxed, has more than an eye for the ladies and likes a drink. Straker is the opposite.


As for inconsistencies between the treatment of of Ford, Jackson etc throughout the series, I suspect a combination of two factors. Firstly the fact that the writers were writing largely in isolation with probably a bible which had skimpy character outlines for what were, at least initially, minor disposable characters.
Secondly I suspect that a writer would often write an episode featuring, say, a random SHADO operative they called Jenkins. Then someone would think, why don't we give that role to Ford, after all he's a familiar face, played by a reliable actor and we don't have to trawl through Spotlight to try to cast someone else at short notice. Jenkins becomes Ford in the script and there was probably little other re-writing done unless Jenkins had been written with a missing leg.

Ed Bishop mentioned in an interview that exactly this process happened with Jackson because everyone enjoyed working with Vladek Sheybal so I'd be surprised if it didn't happen with other peripheral characters.

Sometimes decisions in film making are just that practical and that mundane.

Regards
John  

John nhojuk

You are certainly right about comments about fiction is just that fiction, however for budding writers psycology of why someone did this or that is a requirement.....however with in the world of fiction there is some basis in fact....Straker not drinking was something brought to the charracter by Ed Bishop the actor and was based on the fact that he had recently been at that time banned from driving because of a drink driving charge. This is something I've saw Ed say a couple of times!!

Always
Kerry

--- In [hidden email], "john_nhojuk" <jks@...> wrote:

I think you've hit it on the head.

Many decisions, most of them extremely mundane on the outside, go into how a
character is written. And since the writers did seem to be working in
isolation - one writer has one view and internal continuity and another has
a completely different one. odd things happen.  There's a story that in the
original script for 'Survival' the writer had Straker getting drunk over
Foster's death - until it was pointed out (probably by Bishop) that Straker
wouldn't do that. It had already been established that Straker didn't drink.
An interesting scene might have been Freeman getting drunk and berating
Straker for not unwinding enough to properly grieve, but that wasn't
written.

A case in point of continuing characters being put in to take the place of
one-off characters - Lake. There were episodes where the character Ventham
ended up playing started out as '2nd in command' and even a case where two
one-off characters were rolled into one to give her something to do. No
wonder Lake's character seemed to have been assigned the scut work and was
taking lip from Foster - HE was responding to lowly 'computer guy', not the
supposed second in command of SHADO, and therefore his supervisor. Even in
'The Man Who Came Back', it really looked like the writer simply put Lake's
name on one of the Moongirls and left it like that.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
john_nhojuk
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 8:30 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or
more fleshed out ideas

 

 

I don't usually jump in on discussions of fictional character's psychology
because... well they're fictional, but the writer's motives for making the
character behave in a particular way is another matter.

I suspect that Straker's non-drinking is mainly to reinforce the impression
that he is a tightly-wound character with a tragic back story, dedicated to
his job/vocation, overburdened with responsibility and who fears any loss of
self control.

Also don't forget that Freeman was intended to be Straker's foil throughout
the series. You always want major differences between such characters in
order to generate conflict. Otherwise they would be agreeing with each other
all the time, which kills the drama.
Freeman is naturally easy-going, affable, confident, relaxed, has more than
an eye for the ladies and likes a drink. Straker is the opposite.

As for inconsistencies between the treatment of of Ford, Jackson etc
throughout the series, I suspect a combination of two factors. Firstly the
fact that the writers were writing largely in isolation with probably a
bible which had skimpy character outlines for what were, at least initially,
minor disposable characters.
Secondly I suspect that a writer would often write an episode featuring,
say, a random SHADO operative they called Jenkins. Then someone would think,
why don't we give that role to Ford, after all he's a familiar face, played
by a reliable actor and we don't have to trawl through Spotlight to try to
cast someone else at short notice. Jenkins becomes Ford in the script and
there was probably little other re-writing done unless Jenkins had been
written with a missing leg.

Ed Bishop mentioned in an interview that exactly this process happened with
Jackson because everyone enjoyed working with Vladek Sheybal so I'd be
surprised if it didn't happen with other peripheral characters.

Sometimes decisions in film making are just that practical and that mundane.

Regards
John





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm sure this was said at one Fanderson convention I was at....however
where  I think I believe I first heard it was in the very late 80's
early 90's with a repeat showing on the entire series on the olde now
defunt'd United Kingdom Southern TV network..whom show'd UFO late night like
a lot of the ITV networks long before the BBC pick'd up and started
reshowing Gerry Anderson series. My network TSW however refused to reshow
the series that a then friend copied video tapes for me to be able to see a
TV series, short of the Channel 5 dreadful video I'd not seen since 1973 and
Ed Bishop was a guest of the late night compare.

That compare/interviewer ask'd Mr Bishop questions and it was there he
mentioned at the time he'd been banned from driving due to drinking and
thought he'd bring this to the series charracter! I think he also mentioned
that the name Foster came from one of the production crew whom wanted to be
linked somehow permently with the series. I believe, though am not sure but
Mr Bishop'd guest'd as an extra as did also Dorlories Mandez a different
week during the transmission of The Man who Came Back!

Always
Kerry


On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 6:23 AM, Kerry <[hidden email]>wrote:



--
To everything that was......
To everything that might of been

Prof Victor Bergman and Comdr John  Koenig Space 1999:Black Sun


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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It's not the aliens, Yuchy.  It's the time travelers.  They keep altering the future every time they visit the past.  It's a pain.
~Denise *grin*  

--- In [hidden email], Yuchtar <yuchtr@...> wrote:

> That compare/interviewer ask'd Mr Bishop questions and it was there he
> mentioned at the time he'd been banned from driving due to drinking and
> thought he'd bring this to the series charracter!

Those interviews with Ed Bishop and Dolores Mantez are available for
viewing on my UFO website, although I don't recall Ed saying anything
about being banned from driving (?).

Also, Ford being told off by Straker in IDENTIFIED was not part of
the original script, nor was it even filmed originally.  It was only
several weeks later that the producers thought there needed to be
more explanation about SHADO within the episode, so they filmed this
extra scene where Straker explains to Ford (and the viewing audience)
more details about SHADO.  (you may even find that Bishop is
wearing a wig in this scene, while he has dyed hair in the rest of
the episode).

Marc

Denise, doesn't that make us accessories to the fact, seeing that we have both played with time travel? *grin*

--- In [hidden email], "Neesierie" <neesierie@...> wrote:
>
> It's not the aliens, Yuchy.  It's the time travelers.  They keep altering the future every time they visit the past.  It's a pain.
> ~Denise *grin*  

Blame Wells - You think Kirk had temporal violations? Kirk has nuthin' on HG
Wells. *grin*

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 1:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or
more fleshed out ideas

 

 

Denise, doesn't that make us accessories to the fact, seeing that we have
both played with time travel? *grin*

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Neesierie"
<neesierie@...> wrote:
>
> It's not the aliens, Yuchy. It's the time travelers. They keep altering
the future every time they visit the past. It's a pain.
> ~Denise *grin*





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Janeway was worse than Kirk, and my Straker is going to give them both a run for their money. *grin*

Still, Wells is the king. Next to Doc Brown that is. *snicker*

--- In [hidden email], "Deborah Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:
>
> Blame Wells - You think Kirk had temporal violations? Kirk has nuthin' on HG
> Wells. *grin*
>

There was a program on TV recently that compared the 5 Star Trek Captains in all aspects, and one of them was temporal violations.  I think Kirk won, hands down :)

They even made reference to it in Star Trek Enterprise :)

Bruce


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Matt
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 6:17 PM
  Subject: [SHADO] Re: taglines for characters on UFO instead of a Bible or more fleshed out ideas


   
  Janeway was worse than Kirk, and my Straker is going to give them both a run for their money. *grin*

  Still, Wells is the king. Next to Doc Brown that is. *snicker*

  --- In [hidden email], "Deborah Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:
  >
  > Blame Wells - You think Kirk had temporal violations? Kirk has nuthin' on HG
  > Wells. *grin*
  >



 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shhh!  You're not supposed to tell anyone about that!


--- In [hidden email], "Matt" <ka1bqp@...> wrote:
>
> Denise, doesn't that make us accessories to the fact, seeing that we have both played with time travel? *grin*
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Neesierie" <neesierie@> wrote:
> >
> > It's not the aliens, Yuchy.  It's the time travelers.  They keep altering the future every time they visit the past.  It's a pain.
> > ~Denise *grin*
>

I thought the ep was just a few minutes short and they filmed that scene
just to add some time. No idea where I got that notion - maybe dreaming
again. <shrug>

Y


Marc Martin wrote:


--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Yuchtar zantai-Klaan | [hidden email]
    I am not a number! I am a FREE FAN!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "An apple a day, keeps the, uh ...
           No, never mind."
                 -- Doctor Who
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.yuchtar.com/