TCWTL

Griff Commented

>It doesn't bear any kind of
>scrutiny, and indeed many aspects of it contradict with >earlier episodes,
>and indeed logic.

Lets face it every episode of UFO contains contradiction/logic problems of some sort.I think it a little unfair to single this episode out in that respect.It attempted to stretch the concept of the Alien threat to something more menacing.To my mind the early episodes made them simply too dull and simplistic.We saw them for what they were; humans dressed up in red suits.From the time I first saw CWTL (3rd episode in the original running order)
the Aliens became totally inhuman,unpredictable,mindlessly hostile and completely unfathomable.A truly terrifying enemy.

>If the aliens are truly beings with no physical >manifestations, and are
>capable of mentally inhabiting any sentient creature, it >completely
>contradicts evidence from earlier episodes and >conclusions that the aliens
>are a dying race, 'inherited sterility' and roaming the >galaxy looking for a
>new planet with organs to transplant into their own. Why >bother kidnapping
>humans, removing their organs at all, when they could >have just inhabitant
>the body? No, it doesn't bear up, and shows lack of >UFO understanding from
>the writer, and IMO sloppy logic.

UFO folklore clearly indicates a mass of psychic events
associated with UFO activity.Mutilations,abductions,time dis-placements,psychic ability,medical examinations,possession etc etc.
UFO touched on all of these concepts,so its hardly
realistic to try and pin down exactly what the Aliens were or what motivated/empowered them.In fact a development could have taken place that showed they were not actually from outer space at all,and that they were somehow shaping their actions to our expectations (what a idea to
explore).And I,m not suggesting something akin to the
X-Files here (which I hated).As far as I,m concerned the Aliens were a hostile threat to the peace and security of the world.SHADO as an organisation is I think a great idea,and what a stroke of brilliance to have its based below a film studio.Totally illogical,impractical and against any kind of common sense.It seems completely ridiculous;yet it was highly original and lent the show its sense of unreality and uniqueness.Yet you never hear of any criticism because of this clear violation of the rational.UFO has so many qualities however that its irregularities and general unevenness can be ignored.I like both the first 17 episodes
and the second 9 episodes for different reasons,but its very hard for me to accept them as "wacky" ,because I don't think they are.
UFO's are a complex subject and I felt the last 9 episodes explored the subject a little more imaginatively.And yet many of the first 17 episodes also examined the strange and mysterious issues surrounding UFO's.Its going too far to suggest they were somehow distant and inferior cousins.

Mark UK





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fair enough, Mark... Each to our own. That's the great thing about this
list, so may ideas opinions etc. Griff

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Davies [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] TCWTL


Griff Commented

>It doesn't bear any kind of
>scrutiny, and indeed many aspects of it contradict with >earlier episodes,
>and indeed logic.

Lets face it every episode of UFO contains contradiction/logic problems of
some sort.I think it a little unfair to single this episode out in that
respect.It attempted to stretch the concept of the Alien threat to
something more menacing.To my mind the early episodes made them simply too
dull and simplistic.We saw them for what they were; humans dressed up in red
suits.From the time I first saw CWTL (3rd episode in the original running
order)
the Aliens became totally inhuman,unpredictable,mindlessly hostile and
completely unfathomable.A truly terrifying enemy.

>If the aliens are truly beings with no physical >manifestations, and are
>capable of mentally inhabiting any sentient creature, it >completely
>contradicts evidence from earlier episodes and >conclusions that the aliens
>are a dying race, 'inherited sterility' and roaming the >galaxy looking for
a
>new planet with organs to transplant into their own. Why >bother kidnapping
>humans, removing their organs at all, when they could >have just inhabitant
>the body? No, it doesn't bear up, and shows lack of >UFO understanding from
>the writer, and IMO sloppy logic.

UFO folklore clearly indicates a mass of psychic events
associated with UFO activity.Mutilations,abductions,time
dis-placements,psychic ability,medical examinations,possession etc etc.
UFO touched on all of these concepts,so its hardly
realistic to try and pin down exactly what the Aliens were or what
motivated/empowered them.In fact a development could have taken place that
showed they were not actually from outer space at all,and that they were
somehow shaping their actions to our expectations (what a idea to
explore).And I,m not suggesting something akin to the
X-Files here (which I hated).As far as I,m concerned the Aliens were a
hostile threat to the peace and security of the world.SHADO as an
organisation is I think a great idea,and what a stroke of brilliance to
have its based below a film studio.Totally illogical,impractical and against
any kind of common sense.It seems completely ridiculous;yet it was highly
original and lent the show its sense of unreality and uniqueness.Yet you
never hear of any criticism because of this clear violation of the
rational.UFO has so many qualities however that its irregularities and
general unevenness can be ignored.I like both the first 17 episodes
and the second 9 episodes for different reasons,but its very hard for me to
accept them as "wacky" ,because I don't think they are.
UFO's are a complex subject and I felt the last 9 episodes explored the
subject a little more imaginatively.And yet many of the first 17 episodes
also examined the strange and mysterious issues surrounding UFO's.Its
going too far to suggest they were somehow distant and inferior cousins.

Mark UK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

If I might come in on this question (not necessarily the eps in question but
the whole alien subject) - I've always felt, no matter what contradictions
the series might have presented - that the aliens were this: a race of
highly advanced humanoid beings who had poisoned their own world, ended up
with their population sterile, and lacking in many of the natural resources
earth has to offer because of over-mining, ruination etc of their own,
environmental messes - in short they became what earth COULD become if we
don't manage ourselves and our resources better.

To that end, in my own fanfic, I've portrayed the aliens as such, but I've
also had them (in addition to body parts snatching) stealing our natural
resources (setting up their own mining ops in remote areas of the planet),
setting up underwater bases for the purposes of taking our ocean resources,
and trying to start an alien-human hybrid breeding program - to which
purposes the SHADO people cannot fathom but are very frightened of. Those
eps of the original series which showed the aliens as non-ethical, merciless
exploiters of earth and its resources - both human and otherwise - were the
ones which scared me the most. And as for psychic abilities - having those
capacities doesn't mean the aliens have to be non-corporeal and only
"taking" humanoid form to scare unwitting humans. Everything they do and why
they do it loudly proclaims they ARE humanoid and have to be in order to
need what resources earth provides - or else why do it? While I don't think
the aliens have much emotion, they must have some form of logic.

In regards to the UFO musical - I saw a Star Trek musical in 1992 in Halifax
which was an absolute delight and so weird as it may seem...........UFO
*could* I suppose be done the same way. BTW - the TOS musical DID have a
revolving stage!!

Pam

"Griff" wrote:
> Hi Denise :)
>
> Your good self and I agree 100% completely! I do not like TSOS
> either (great effects though), although it is a great deal better
> than TCWTL!!! Okay, I love UFO and it has been a part of my life
> 'ever since I was an embryo', but I rarely watch the 'wacky'
> episodes... and regard them as distant cousins to the wonderful
> and original masterpiece!
>
In general, I agree - the first block of episodes are the real,
definitive UFO for me. The premise was stretched too far in what
you quite reasonably term the 'Wacky' episodes, and they suffer from
the absence of two prominent characters - Freeman and Ellis.

But there are one or two good episodes among them, and I do feel
that The Sound Of Silence is one of these. The Cat With Ten
Lives definitely isn't though, in my opinion. Far too Hammer
Horror.

Hi, gang.

r.e.:

THE CAT WITH TEN LIVES

I'm with Mark Davies on this; I think THE CAT WITH TEN LIVES is superb.

The script is layered, and intelligent.

The scenes between the Regans and the Thompsons at the beginning feel
very real, and are genuinely warm and humorous.

I thought the use of the Ouija board added an air of sinister
atmosphere.

I loved the reference to DAN DARE; adding a joke about another fictional
space opera made this one seem more real - and was the kind of thing
someone like Regan, living an extraordinary life, would say.

I thought Kanner's mannered, slightly off-key performance was
captivating...

The scene between Straker and Jackson was fascinating; showing the
compassion and vulnerability which lies behind Straker's objectivity.

The second block has its failures (REFLECTIONS IN THE WATER would be a
candidate here) but so does the first (I would never name CLOSE-UP as
being superior to CAT...).

On the whole, though, I think the later episodes are an improvement over
the first; no more endless scenes showing us every stage of an
Interceptor launch; the redefining of the Alien menace...

I also preferred the recasting: Nina Barry was a warmer, more human -
more credible - Moonbase Commander than Gay Ellis. Virginia Lake's
promotion gave a position of authority in SHADO to a woman, at last...

CAT is in my top ten...

Best to all,

--
Mark.

>I loved the reference to DAN DARE; adding a joke about another fictional
>space opera made this one seem more real - and was the kind of thing
>someone like Regan, living an extraordinary life, would say.

You know, I didn't even realize that Regan said "Dan Dare" until I
got the Carlton UFO DVDs, and watched that scene with the subtitles
on!

There were always particular scenes that I just couldn't understand
what was being said. The subtitled versions fixed that problem
(pity that the A&E DVDs don't have any subtitles)

Marc

> I thought the use of the Ouija board added an air of sinister
> atmosphere.

Interestingly enough, around about the time this episode was written
Waddingtons, the board game manufacturers, found themselves in a
spot of hot water. They manufactured and sold a verion of Ouija,
merchandised through shops and stores. It was eventually removed
from sale after a short period after a number of reports of "posessions"
by demonic, Satanic 'forces'

Satn, being second in power only to The Almighty himself, of course,
needs to be invited in by playing a board game before he can do his
dirty work. He may have the power to destory worlds but, heck, he
can't get in without that 'ol Ouija board - but that's another different line
of thought.

Anyways, yes. This was fairly often in the media spotlight in those
times. May have influenced those writing and producing this one.

> The scene between Straker and Jackson was fascinating; showing the
> compassion and vulnerability which lies behind Straker's objectivity.

Straker made an extraordinarily bad decision in this episode. He knew
Regan had been aboard a UFO, been subjected to goodness knows
what alien probings, left in his car... and he still allows the guy back on
Moonbase. Yes, they may have needed another man for Venus Probe
escort, but there was nobody else available? Not one single backup?
It was a decision Straker made which almost cost him Moonbase. If
Moonbase had gone up ho would he have explained that one to a
smugly-smiling Henderson?

Dave.

Hi, Dave.

r.e.:

>Straker made an extraordinarily bad decision in this episode. He knew
>Regan had been aboard a UFO, been subjected to goodness knows
>what alien probings, left in his car... and he still allows the guy back on
>Moonbase.
>Dave.

What bothers me more than that is the scene where Regan is sitting in
Straker's office, immediately after reporting his wife's abduction, and
Lake and Straker respond by telling him his wife is going to be cut into
bits.

That is just so obscene and insensitive it's ludicrous.

No one as intelligent as the two senior SHADO officers are supposed to
be would do that.

As I've said, I like CAT WITH TEN LIVES (and share Amelia's affection
for SOUND OF SILENCE) but whenever I see that scene, I shake my head in
disbelief.

In contrast, I don't find the notion that Straker would send Regan to
Moonbase unreasonable; a lot of people find, in tragic circumstances,
that doing something is better than doing nothing - and Straker's mind
works that way anyway.

In QUESTION OF PRIORITIES, after Alec Freeman's unknowing actions have
jeopardised the effort to save his son's life, he pulls himself out of
his grief and throws himself into the effort to locate the Alien in
Ireland.

So, it's not unreasonable for him to attempt the same cure to Regan...

And Jackson agrees.

And who would argue with Jackson?

--
Mark.

I don't agree about Straker and Lake telling the guy the truth. Yes,
it was hard and maybe in todays world of kinder gentler though insensitive as
Hell itself. But and this is going to sound very Joe Friday to those who are
in that kinder gentler mood it was just the facts! What were they suppose to
do? Say, "Gee Regan we know it looks bad and all but I give you my word that
Jean will be back with you safe and sound." That rather like that story that
goes your cat died, and the person says you could have broke it to me easier,
how? well first you say the cat is up on the roof. This is a WAR! In wars
innocent people get killed every day. It is a sad thing but you can't change
it and you sure aren't going to make the person who has lost someone feel
anybetter by lying to them. And telling them the truth which they know aready
being a member of SHADO what happens to alien captives isn't going to make going
to make it better either but it is better than them lying to themselves. It
was this dark aspect and dealing with things in a realistic manner that sets UFO
apart from other shows. If you want show about war that makes you laugh
watch Hogan's Heroes. McHale's Navy, Dad's Army not UFO.

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], SumitonJD@a... wrote:
> I don't agree about Straker and Lake telling the guy the
truth. Yes,
> it was hard and maybe in todays world of kinder gentler though
insensitive as
> Hell itself. But and this is going to sound very Joe Friday to
those who are
> in that kinder gentler mood it was just the facts! What were
they suppose to
> do? Say, "Gee Regan we know it looks bad and all but I give you
my word that
> Jean will be back with you safe and sound." That rather like
that story that
> goes your cat died, and the person says you could have broke it to
me easier,
> how? well first you say the cat is up on the roof. This is a
WAR! In wars

Exactly my same opinion!
Also, Reagan should have known already what was likely to happen to
his wife... Straker and Lake were just confirming what he was
already suspecting.

David Levine

For those of you who own the new Japanese UFO DVD set 1 (and can
understand Japanese), I was curious what kinds of things are being
discussed on the interview with the voice artists? And who did these
voice artists play? Is one of them the voice of Straker and the
other the voice of Foster?

Just curious...

Thanks!

Marc

Hi Martin,

One of the voice artists without glasses is Taichiro Hirokawa who
played Straker, and another one wearing glasses is Michio Hazama who
played Foster.
They two have been some of the most famous and popular voice artists
in Japan.

Most of the topics talked about by them were on the situation and the
circumstances around the Japanese voice artists in those years.

In the Japanese version of "Captain Scarlet", Mr. Hirokawa played
Captain Magenta, and Mr. Hazama did Captain Blue.

BTW, Freeman was played by the late Mr. Akiji Kobayashi, who played
Captain Muramatsu of Science Special Search Investigation from the
first series of "Ultraman" as an actor.


Kaoru