UFOs in space

PS-
It just occurred to me- I've seen UFOs fire on ground vehicles, etc,
but did UFOs ever engage Inteceptors in space? Like, shoot at em?
Seems they just wobbled on in. And did the Inteceptors have any
defensive capability? IE, once they shot the missle, if they
missed, how did they defend themselves?

Now you mention it, in space, the UFOs only fired at SID (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

Re what the Interceptors did after shooting their missile, there's a rumour about a missing scene in which such an event took place:

INTERCEPTOR PILOT: "One of the UFOs is coming after me! Require assistance!"

STRAKER: "...Okay, pilot! This is what you do. Head straight back to Moonbase."

PILOT: "Roger, will do. Er, he's still after me!"

STRAKER: "Engage automatic pilot. Then put your hands together and repeat after me: Our father, who art in heaven..."

It's true - I made it up myself!

Brinke <[hidden email]> wrote:
PS-
It just occurred to me- I've seen UFOs fire on ground vehicles, etc,
but did UFOs ever engage Inteceptors in space? Like, shoot at em?
Seems they just wobbled on in. And did the Inteceptors have any
defensive capability? IE, once they shot the missle, if they
missed, how did they defend themselves?

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--- In [hidden email], MICK DICKENS <docmed03@y...> wrote:
> Now you mention it, in space, the UFOs only fired at SID (I'm sure
someone will correct me if I'm wrong). <

They also "attacked" various SHADO personnel in episodes like The Man
Who Came Back, though not in their usual fashion. They also made a
mass attack on Moonbase in Reflections In The Water, though I can't
remember if they actually fired any shots after being intercepted by
the Interceptors and assorted ground forces.

The impression I had from watching the show was that the UFOs seemed
to have fairly limited manoeuvrability while approaching Earth,
being "locked" into trajectories across most of the Solar System. It
wasn't until they had slowed right down, just prior to entry into
atmosphere, that they could deviate much from the course they were
coming in on. Certainly, SHADO's response methods would seem to
indicate this, and we only ever saw one UFO abort and run for home,
IIRC -- the one that the modified probe went after. In that episode,
we see SHADO bluff the UFO into running by carefully missing with
interceptor shots; that technique and the realities of 3-D movement
would make me think that UFOs travel in a sort of "groove" except
right at the end of their trip to Earth, when they break free and can
move at will.

Phil, who loves RinW; definitely one of the best episodes of the
series -- spooky as all-get-out!

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 17:04:02 -0000
"Phil" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The impression I had from watching the show was that the UFOs seemed
> to have fairly limited manoeuvrability while approaching Earth,
> being "locked" into trajectories across most of the Solar System. It
> wasn't until they had slowed right down, just prior to entry into
> atmosphere, that they could deviate much from the course they were
> coming in on.

Yes, I agree .. I just wish it had been made explicitly clear in the
series, as it would have propped up the credibility of the whole idea
of the single-missile Interceptors, and SID predicting the course into
Earth, etc etc. To be honest although it's a theory that works nicely
in retrospect, I don't think they'd actually thought of it.

--- In [hidden email], James Gibbon <jg@j...> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 17:04:02 -0000
> "Phil" <atcliffe@p...> wrote:
> Yes, I agree .. I just wish it had been made explicitly clear in
the
> series, as it would have propped up the credibility of the whole
idea
> of the single-missile Interceptors, and SID predicting the course
into
> Earth, etc etc. To be honest although it's a theory that works
nicely
> in retrospect, I don't think they'd actually thought of it.

I'd give them a bit more credit than that. Since "Star Wars" we've
come to accept dogfighting in space movies, continuing
with "Battlestar Galactica", "Space: Above and Beyond" and
*gag* "The Last Starfighter". Back in the days UFO was produced,
the concept of old fashioned dogfighting was becoming redundant even
in the real military world. If you read Gerry Anderson on UFO, he
was very keen to extrapolate current ideas and technology for the
show.

In the 1960's, the air forces of the world were moving towards
faster and faster interceptors like the F-104 Starfighter, the F-
106, the Voodoo, the BAC Lightning and the Mig 25. These planes had
precious little manoevering but shed loads of speed. Air force
planners believed that planes would move fast to intercept an enemy
plane, lock on to the target with a radar and then leave (a lot of
the planes I've listed did not have cannon fitted as standard).
None of this "I've got bandits at 6 O'clock" and dogfighting. Only
experience in Vietnam and Israel changed this outlook to bring back
planes with both dogfighting and fast interception qualities.

Back to UFO, the aliens would be travelling at enormous speed (Sol
decimal 8 and 4 were the most common speeds) and Moonbase would use
their targeting computers to track and predict the path of the UFO.
It's all there in the show so this had to have been thought out and
not just stumbled apon. It's only when the UFO gets into Earth's
atmosphere that Skydiver, a more conventional fighter plane that can
manoever, comes into play.

Nick

I found out from several forums that Gerry Anderson thought people realised from the special effects that although one missile left the interceptors that several detonations took place. The missile was actually fragment into several missiles so the UFO would be hit by one or more explosions.

Nick <[hidden email]> wrote:

--- In [hidden email], James Gibbon wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 17:04:02 -0000
> "Phil" wrote:
> Yes, I agree .. I just wish it had been made explicitly clear in
the
> series, as it would have propped up the credibility of the whole
idea
> of the single-missile Interceptors, and SID predicting the course
into
> Earth, etc etc. To be honest although it's a theory that works
nicely
> in retrospect, I don't think they'd actually thought of it.

I'd give them a bit more credit than that. Since "Star Wars" we've
come to accept dogfighting in space movies, continuing
with "Battlestar Galactica", "Space: Above and Beyond" and
*gag* "The Last Starfighter". Back in the days UFO was produced,
the concept of old fashioned dogfighting was becoming redundant even
in the real military world. If you read Gerry Anderson on UFO, he
was very keen to extrapolate current ideas and technology for the
show.

In the 1960's, the air forces of the world were moving towards
faster and faster interceptors like the F-104 Starfighter, the F-
106, the Voodoo, the BAC Lightning and the Mig 25. These planes had
precious little manoevering but shed loads of speed. Air force
planners believed that planes would move fast to intercept an enemy
plane, lock on to the target with a radar and then leave (a lot of
the planes I've listed did not have cannon fitted as standard).
None of this "I've got bandits at 6 O'clock" and dogfighting. Only
experience in Vietnam and Israel changed this outlook to bring back
planes with both dogfighting and fast interception qualities.

Back to UFO, the aliens would be travelling at enormous speed (Sol
decimal 8 and 4 were the most common speeds) and Moonbase would use
their targeting computers to track and predict the path of the UFO.
It's all there in the show so this had to have been thought out and
not just stumbled apon. It's only when the UFO gets into Earth's
atmosphere that Skydiver, a more conventional fighter plane that can
manoever, comes into play.

Nick






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--- In [hidden email], legg bryan <bslwrsf@y...> wrote:
> I found out from several forums that Gerry Anderson thought people
realised from the special effects that although one missile left the
interceptors that several detonations took place. The missile was
actually fragment into several missiles so the UFO would be hit by
one or more explosions. <

Well, I think he and the FX teams have only themselves to blame for
that. IIRC, we generally only saw one explosion per missile. In fact,
the only time I remember seeing multiple detonations was
in "Identified" when all 3 interceptors fire on the UFO heading for
Seagull X-ray, and we only saw three explosions. It always seemed
that one missile = one big bang; if there were supposed to be
multiple warheads, then it was never made clear -- or even
specifically stated -- and the FX did not help.

> Nick <off_break_2001@y...> wrote:
> In the 1960's, the air forces of the world were moving towards
faster and faster interceptors like the F-104 Starfighter, the F-106,
the Voodoo, the BAC Lightning and the Mig-25. These planes had
precious little manoevering but shedloads of speed. Air force
planners believed that planes would move fast to intercept an enemy
plane, lock on to the target with a radar and then leave (a lot of
the planes I've listed did not have cannon fitted as standard). None
of this "I've got bandits at 6 o'clock" and dogfighting. Only
experience in Vietnam and Israel changed this outlook to bring back
planes with both dogfighting and fast interception qualities. <

Very true. It was the same old "end of the dogfight" idea that was
trotted out in the 1930s (before the Battle of Britain), the 1940s
(and then there was Korea) and, as you say, in the 50s and 60s before
Vietnam and the Six-Day War disproved it. Dogfights simply became
bigger and faster. They're saying it again, and they _might_ have a
point now that missile technology has finally started to live up to
the promises made for it over the years, but I'd still like my
fighters to be able to manoeuvre hard, thanks all the same.

Oh, and I have some friends who would challenge your assertion that
the F-104 can't dogfight. Granted, its combat record isn't that
great, but I have seen the text of a USAF report from the 1960s that
states that the Starfighter was the equal or better of any other
aircraft in the then-current US inventory in the air-to-air role
_if_flown_correctly_ -- and that's something that very few people
ever did. The F-104 is an energy fighter par excellence; it can't
turn for nuts, but when it uses the vertical, there's almost nothing
that can stay with it.

> Back to UFO, the aliens would be travelling at enormous speed (Sol
decimal 8 and 4 were the most common speeds) and Moonbase would use
their targeting computers to track and predict the path of the UFO.
It's all there in the show so this had to have been thought out and
not just stumbled upon. <

I'm unconvinced about that, mostly because I don't see the writers
having that much technical knowledge. I think that it was mostly done
to put in a certain amount of technobabble and show how SHADO went
about the business of an interception in space -- sort of the
equivalent of the launch sequences that were so popular in earlier GA
series. I don't think that it was really thought out, but it worked
anyway, provided one doesn't get too nit-picky with questions like
how did SHADO only manage to drive off a single UFO in one episode?
Other than that case, the aliens seemed to simply bore in, trusting
to speed, luck and sneakiness to survive and reach the Earth; why did
(or could) that particular UFO turn around and go home (and what
happened to the pilot(s) when it got home <eg>)?

Phil

Now that you mention it I remember someone mentioning that fact and
it would explain why the ufo could be damaged even though there
wasn't a direct hit but personally when I see the one missle firing
and the one big explosion, I don't tend to think of it as several
smaller missiles going off. I don't think it's very clear but it
could just be me. In retrospect maybe some actor dialogue could have
made things clearer.

Karen


--- In [hidden email], legg bryan <bslwrsf@y...> wrote:
> I found out from several forums that Gerry Anderson thought
people realised from the special effects that although one missile
left the interceptors that several detonations took place. The
missile was actually fragment into several missiles so the UFO would
be hit by one or more explosions.