Why England at ALL?

First posting here - have be viewing the DVD episodes at home and
thoroughly enjoying each and every detail.

Many interesting and valid questions come up in this group, which
makes it fun to read and ponder the postings. But a really fundamental
question, which I remember discussing at home when I watched the show
as a kid in the '70s, is "What is the likelihood that a super-secret
anti-alien defense organization with sophisticated space facilities
and weaponry would originate and be based in England, a country with
essentially zero aerospace industry at the time the show was
conceived?"

I know the obvious answer, which is the show was produced in England
so it made sense for it to be there. And yes, Straker is American and
the authority behind SHADO came originally from the U.N. But it still
seemed really funny to me that England would have been the leader in
this endeavo(u)r. Of course, it's fiction, so anything goes.

No disrespect intended to our friends overseas who have
well-established space exploration programs. In a couple of days I
expect that the European Space Agency will have a spectacular success
with the Huygens probe at Titan.

AS

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:03:42 -0000
"A" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> But a really fundamental question, which I remember discussing at
> home when I watched the show as a kid in the '70s, is "What is the
> likelihood that a super-secret anti-alien defense organization with
> sophisticated space facilities and weaponry would originate and be
> based in England, a country with essentially zero aerospace industry
> at the time the show was conceived?"

The notion that England had "essentially zero" aerospace industry at
the end of the sixties is completely untrue; for example the world's
most advanced passenger aircraft from the '70s onward was Anglo/French
in origin.

In any case, the show was set ten years in the future from the time it
was conceived.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Gibbon" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 6:51 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Why England at ALL?
>
> In any case, the show was set ten years in the future from the time it
> was conceived.

I get a chuckle when I realize just how much stuff the show says will have
happened in the 10 years between the time of its creation and the time when
the show is supposed to be taking place. To wit:

1) At one point Straker says something to the effect of "Racial prejudice?
Why that burned itself out five years ago."
Racism was eradicated in 1975! Apparently the word didn't get out.

2) In "The Dalotek Affair," Straker is trying to figure out why Dalotek is
operating on the moon and says something like "all the valuable deposits
were exhausted a long time ago."
No more valuable minerals on the moon? And yet so much of it seems to have
been untouched by the time Moonbase was operational. Maybe they figured out
a way to do non-invasive mining.

3) EVERYONE's cars -- not just those owned by the government -- have been
switched to left-hand drive (driving on the right side of the road). Except
in flashback scenes, no one is driving a right-hand-drive car. Which means
everyone replaced their cars or somehow had them converted to left-hand
drive in a very short time. Wonder if the government helped pay for the
conversion. This would have been before Maggie Thatcher, right?

It seems to me that it's all very well someone like Straker - a man in a position of authority - saying that racial prejudice burned itself out five years ago, but people in so-called authority (politicians, for example) are "cocooned" from real life and don't always see - or choose to see - what's going on in the real world.

I'm not for one moment suggesting that Straker is like that - he genuinely believes that what he says is true, and would not have said it otherwise - but most people in authority cushion themselves from the real world and refuse to address the problems therein.

I feel a rant coming on...

D Persica <[hidden email]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Gibbon"
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 6:51 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Why England at ALL?
>
> In any case, the show was set ten years in the future from the time it
> was conceived.

I get a chuckle when I realize just how much stuff the show says will have
happened in the 10 years between the time of its creation and the time when
the show is supposed to be taking place. To wit:

1) At one point Straker says something to the effect of "Racial prejudice?
Why that burned itself out five years ago."
Racism was eradicated in 1975! Apparently the word didn't get out.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:41:13 -0600
"
>
> 3) EVERYONE's cars -- not just those owned by the government -- have been
> switched to left-hand drive (driving on the right side of the road). Except
> in flashback scenes, no one is driving a right-hand-drive car. Which means
> everyone replaced their cars or somehow had them converted to left-hand
> drive in a very short time. Wonder if the government helped pay for the
> conversion. This would have been before Maggie Thatcher, right?
>

Margaret Thatcher came to power a few months before 1980.

I don't think it's every going to happen - the cost of changing all the
motorway exits to entrances and vice-versa is bad enough, but the chaos
and loss of life leading from a situation in which millions of motorists
have to drive on what they intuitively consider to be the 'wrong' side
of the road would be prohibitive. It would be slaughter out there.

1) In "The Dalotek Affair" Straker is talking by videophone to an officer at
the Dalotek company. Straker presumably is visible to the Dalotek guy and
the Dalotek guy knows his name. However, Straker is talking to the man in
Straker's military capacity. He's complaining to him about Dalotek's base
interfering with the military operations on the moon.
My question is, doesn't this blow Straker's cover? Obviously, as a "movie
executive" he's known to the public and his name is even part of the
studio's name. Are we to assume that the guy at Dalotek has never heard of
nor seen Straker the movie exec and that he never will?

2) As neat as it seems at first, isn't the descending office a bit of
overkill? Why not just a small hidden elevator? Or even just a stairwell?
Why does the whole darned thing have to descend?
After all, once he gets down to the underground level, he walks to another
office, so it's not like he needs his studio office at all once he's down in
SHADO.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:18:14 -0600
"D Persica" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1) In "The Dalotek Affair" Straker is talking by videophone to an
> officer at the Dalotek company. Straker presumably is visible to the
> Dalotek guy and the Dalotek guy knows his name. However, Straker is
> talking to the man in Straker's military capacity. He's complaining to
> him about Dalotek's base interfering with the military operations on
> the moon. My question is, doesn't this blow Straker's cover?

Indeed it does, and we've discussed this very point before on the list.
I'm afraid it's very hard to come up with a plausible scenario that
would explain it.

Straker's conversation with Foster's boss in EXPOSED is a similar case
in point. It would be better to have someone from the Home Office or
the security services deal with these matters, rather than being dealt
with directly by SHADO, who after all, aren't supposed to exist as far
as Dalotek and the company Foster works for before joining SHADO are
concerned.

--- In [hidden email], "D Persica" <dennispersica@b...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Gibbon" <jg@j...>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 6:51 PM
> Subject: [SHADO] Re: Why England at ALL?
> >
> > In any case, the show was set ten years in the future from the
time it
> > was conceived.
>
> I get a chuckle when I realize just how much stuff the show says
will have
> happened in the 10 years between the time of its creation and the
time when
> the show is supposed to be taking place. , right?

What about the eradication of the shirt? In the future, button up
shirts will be no more! No more ties! No more complicated doing up
buttons...or cuffs!

Nick
(the other one)

>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Gibbon" <jg@j...>

> What about the eradication of the shirt? In the future, button up
> shirts will be no more! No more ties! No more complicated doing up
> buttons...or cuffs!

Yes. I think the fishnet tops the SkyDiver crew had to wear is a pretty good
indication of where shirts were headed in the future.

>1) In "The Dalotek Affair" Straker is talking by videophone
>to an officer at the Dalotek company. <SNIP>
>My question is, doesn't this blow Straker's cover?

Not at all, it isn't at all uncommon for leadership of corporations to
receive some type of security clearances (when they can qualify and have a
need) to permit them to deal with secret organizations or exposure to
secret hardware. This is especially true of course for the contractors
which build secret hardware but could be equally true to a company like
Dalotek who just happens to be the neighbor to Moonbase. (A company that
would have to get used to seeing interceptors with nukes fly out and
without nukes flying home maybe right over their heads) They would likely
be on a need to know basis but also would be under a nondisclosure
agreement backed up with plenty of "unfortunate" consequences for
noncompliance. Consequences like loss of contracts or permits,
imprisonment, fines, even "accidents" if the secrets are important enough.
Security clearances are taken very seriously by those who have them and
give them, so for companies like Dalotek and Foster's former employer where
a free dialogue is required between them and SHADO, its not only essential
but fairly secure.

>2) As neat as it seems at first, isn't the descending office
>a bit of overkill? <SNIP>

All (well a great many anyway) of the Anderson productions have shown a
fondness for large movable structures it seems. From the many underground
launch pads, retractable gear of all kinds, underwater entrances, to entire
flying bases, etc. Seems to me that Straker's office-elevator/lift is a
rather minor thing in the grand scheme of the Anderson worlds. :)
...Besides it looks really neat to see out the window while descending, and
of course; Straker can impress the newbies. Remember the look on Fosters
face when he went down for the first time in Exposed? :)

S

> ...Besides it looks really neat to see out the window while descending,
> and
> of course; Straker can impress the newbies. Remember the look on Fosters
> face when he went down for the first time in Exposed? :)
>
Wouldn't you like to see the look on the faces of all the people OUTSIDE the
office when it starts descending?
(I know, I know, all sorts of explanations for this. Probably only the
interior of the office descends while the outer shell -- the exterior of the
building -- remains in place. That's the only operating method that makes
sense, though the series never addresses that issue.)

Other Nick. Remember Sylvia Anderson was a fashion designer then. She probably wanted the fishnet shirts so the men could show off their flawless bodies. too bad the woman on the submarine wore a bra. LOL. I was looking very carefuly. When I was a child my mom bought me a UFO lunchbox(now lost to time). My sister saw it one time and told my mom to take it away from me because the woman on the lunch box was nude. She did NOT tell me. My mom looked at the woman on the lunch box and said you could not tell. I wonder now if anyone in the lunch room noticed my lunch box.

Nick <[hidden email]> wrote:


--- In [hidden email], "D Persica" wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Gibbon"
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 6:51 PM
> Subject: [SHADO] Re: Why England at ALL?
> >
> > In any case, the show was set ten years in the future from the
time it
> > was conceived.
>
> I get a chuckle when I realize just how much stuff the show says
will have
> happened in the 10 years between the time of its creation and the
time when
> the show is supposed to be taking place. , right?

What about the eradication of the shirt? In the future, button up
shirts will be no more! No more ties! No more complicated doing up
buttons...or cuffs!

Nick
(the other one)









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--- In [hidden email], legg bryan <bslwrsf@y...> wrote:
> Other Nick. Remember Sylvia Anderson was a fashion designer
>then. She probably wanted the fishnet shirts so the men could show
>off their flawless bodies. too bad the woman on the submarine wore
>a bra. LOL. I was looking very carefuly. When I was a child my
>mom bought me a UFO lunchbox(now lost to time). My sister saw it
>one time and told my mom to take it away from me because the woman
>on the lunch box was nude. She did NOT tell me. My mom looked at
>the woman on the lunch box and said you could not tell. I wonder
>now if anyone in the lunch room noticed my lunch box.

I know some detractors of the show like to knock UFO because of
either the purple wigs or the string vests on Skydiver but I can see
a practical side to them. Living in a cramped submarine, you'd want
something cool, lightweight and easy to work in. She was probably
influenced by the lightweight garments astronauts wore in the 60's.
But like a lot of sci fi of the era, the shirt is doomed...the
future is the turtleneck sweater!

Nick
(the other one)