Why is SHADO entirely defensive?

> If they were so advanced medically, they would have been able to
> cure what is wrong with them. Through cloning, medicines, or other
> means. This would have been far less risky than organ harvasting on
> a species that is known for violence and bad tempers.
>


-----------------------------------------------------


You're starting to see the frustration I always have in dealing with
this series. The writing is so inconsistent and ill considered that you have
to make all these assumptions and changes as to what you believe about the
canon of it.

The local solar system base/homeworld was also one of my ways of trying
to square that situation in a post a few days back. It solves soooh many
problems....

happy's;
Dave H.

"Natasha Bell" wrote:

> In the context of UFO however, we do not have the technological
> superiority to be as flexible as to perform surgical strikes
> against military infrastructure. We do have the technology to
> vaporize the surface of the planet however, or to burn-off it's
> atmosphere.
>

Actually, nowhere in the entire UFO canon is it ever hinted that
such technology exists in the UFO version of 1980.

> Where has it ever been established that there is a diffrence in the
> Alien society between military and civilian? They could be more or
> less like the Borg in the extreme, or closer to the Klingons where
> everyone is in the military.

It ISN'T established. It's an unknown, and that's really my point.
Before contemplating an act as potentially vicious, twisted and
unambiguously evil as the one you suggest, it would have to be
established beyond a shred of doubt that more or less the entire
Alien planet is in on it.

>It ISN'T established. It's an unknown, and that's really my point.
>Before contemplating an act as potentially vicious, twisted and
>unambiguously evil as the one you suggest, it would have to be
>established beyond a shred of doubt that more or less the entire
>Alien planet is in on it.

Yes, given the relatively few UFOs we see come to Earth, it's
quite possible that the Alien "general public" is completely
unaware that such things are going on. It could be some
secret Alien government program. Or possibly from one
country (it's certainly never established that the Alien's
have a single planet-wide government).

I know I wouldn't want the Earth to be destroyed just because
of some secret government program going on somewhere on Earth.
Would you?

Actually, I'm surprised that SHADO ever got funded in the
first place -- all Straker had in the first place was a few
kidnappings and mutilated bodies. I'm surprised that a
multi-billion dollar organization would be set up for something
that had far fewer casualties than that due to auto accidents,
cigarette smoking, bathtub slipping, etc.

Of course, by the time we reach the episode DESTRUCTION, SHADO
was a worthwhile investment, but I don't think the bureaucrats
would have predicted something like that based on the evidence
given to them.

Marc

> The local solar system base/homeworld was also one of my ways of trying
>to square that situation in a post a few days back. It solves soooh many
>problems....

Yes, but it's inconsistent with the series. In the UFO writers guide, they
state that the Alien's come from the nearest solar system, Alpha Centauri.
Given that UFOs typically travel at 8 times the speed of light, and given
that in the episode CLOSE UP they expected it to be a 4 month trip back to
the Alien homeworld, that would put the Alien planet way out of our solar
system.

And here's some math to back that up -- at 8 times the speed of light, a
UFO travels 130 billion miles per day. The planet Pluto is only 4 billion
miles from the sun, so that would make the Alien's trip about a day.

Now, Alpha Centauri is 25,000 billion miles away. At 8 times the speed of
light, that would be a 6 month trip. So it seems to me that UFO is
internally consistent.

Marc

CONTENTS DELETED

I feel sort of trapped in the middle here as I can see but the points that
Tasha and the other James are trying to make. Tasha wants Straker to be able to
send an attack against the alien home world that that leave them no doubt
that we are not going to take this being use as unwilling donars. The other
James feels that the this attack would be just as much a war crime as the aliens
attacking and killing non military humans and disecting them or military ones
for that matter. He also feels that doing this might get the aliens really
mad at use so that they pull out the big guns and just wipe us off the face of
the universe.

That is the trouble with war. Its not a sure thing. Its like a horse race,
you pay your money and you take your chances. Its difficult in the course of
a TV action adventure show like UFO set in a Sciene Fiction background use
sound military tactics as they often get in the way of the storyline. But it
was often the way of war to wipe out whole cultures. You find it in references
through out history, scorched earth is as old as war itself. The Army lead by
Joshua leveled cities and killed every man, woman and child. The Roman
Legions would do the same and then sow the ground with salt so nothing would grow
on that spot.

The question is how far is SHADO willing to go to win and at what cost
to our humanity and and also if they fight humanely will not this seem as
weakness to the aliens and cause them to lose? As the cost to Earth is either
being slaves used as breeding stock for organ transplants or totally wiped out
there isn't much choice is there?
But there have been signs of aliens not totally unfriendly. In
Survival the alien who first shots out the window in Moonbase teams up to keep
Foster alive but we don't know for what purpose. In Question of Priorites there is
the alien who tries to contact SHADO who is killed by his own people making
us think he is a traitor or from a group that wants to find a peaceful
solution. That was the thing that made UFO great, like real life there were no
simple answers.

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tighter Jumpsuits for Commander Straker.

Okay that will take out the most female aliens and the male ones who bat from
the opposite side of the plate but how are you going to get the other males
and females?


James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CONTENTS DELETED

Marc Martin wrote:

> I know I wouldn't want the Earth to be destroyed just because
> of some secret government program going on somewhere on Earth.
> Would you?
>

Not really. And this brings to mind another point - SHADO is
after all, a secret organisation, only tenuously accountable to
the taxpayers, a great many of whom would surely object to
having their tax contributions spent on wanton, disporportionate
genocidal destruction.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Why is SHADO entirely defensive



> Yes, but it's inconsistent with the series. In the UFO writers guide,
they
---------------------------------------------------------

....Again, that leaves us with the dilemma of OUR side being able to
star travel (probe), and if we can do that, then why are we still confined
to just lunar regional travel. We don't see lots of evidence to the contrary
of that in the show.

I'm not saying they didn't come from the stars in the series, just that
many of the writers inconsistancies about that point presents many problems,
both on the science & technology side, and many of the episode plot lines.

I've read some of the fan fic posted in the shado lib, and I see that
some of those folks have adjusted UFO points to suit their needs as well.

Dave H.

> ....Again, that leaves us with the dilemma of OUR side being able to
>star travel (probe), and if we can do that, then why are we still confined
>to just lunar regional travel. We don't see lots of evidence to the contrary
>of that in the show.

In THE SOUND OF SILENCE, we see a space probe returning to Earth, with a
UFO following close behind. In THE MAN WHO CAME BACK, Craig Collins was
also returning to Earth from *somewhere*. In REFLECTIONS IN THE WATER,
there is a manned deep space probe monitoring a buildup of UFOs, which is
destroyed.

Seems like there's *lots* of space travel going on in the series outside of
the lunar region.

This is one area where the producers of the new UFO series is definitely
going to have to make adjustments. Back in the late 1960's, it certainly
seemed feasible that there'd be lots of progress made in space exploration.
Today however, nobody would even believe that we have a base on the Moon...

Marc

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Why is SHADO entirely defensive?


> In a message dated 2/19/2004 10:24:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [hidden email] writes:
> But the simple fact is that no one has had
> the courage to take the fight to the enemy. I am surprised that
> Straker and Freeman, especially Freeman, didn't lobby for it. That
> is so much in his character, as it would be Straker's.
> I had always assumed that everything in Close Up was a precursor to
exactly
> that. I didn't think Straker just wanted those photos for his scrapbook.
I
> think that invading them back was what was cooking in his attractive
silver
> haired head. The monetary cost of such an attack would have singed
Henderson's
> ample eyebrows, but I agree, it would be the next step in their way of
thinking.
>


----------------------------------------------------------


In "Close Up", Straker is seen on the moonbase intercom, commenting how
this is the "first step in taking the fight back to the alien homeworld"....

...but then the camera broke and they dropped the whole thing.

Dave H.

I thought the picture of the UFO in the pilot was the reason the powers that
be funded SHADO in the first place. Not to mention actually being fired on by
a UFO while still in a motorcade. scott


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Forgive me, I haven't been reading this thread too closely but as I scanned this message I had a thought which may or may not have been brought up yet.

One of the things SHADO continously tries to do is capture an intact piece of equipment or an intact alien. A few of the episodes brought that prospect very very close but always at the end it's snatched away.

Which, (After watching a special on the Russian Air Force on the Discovery Wings Channel over the weekend) made me think getting a real piece of alien tech, figuring it out and making it work for us would completely turn those Henderson V Straker balance sheets on their heads!

Imagine the money to be made off the tech in the UFOs with all their capabilities.

In fact, they do have intact Alien Space Suits so I bet that tech would already have been studied and maybe used for experimental space mission or deep sea missions. I can't imagine being the guy who gets to test it! Remember when we had the doctor contact the list years ago with his thesis on liquid breathing and he wanted a few episodes to support his ideas?

Anyway, just a little spin on this defensive Vs offensive debate. Perhaps Henderson wants the alien homeworld intact for the time when we'll be able to plunder it. If a few people loose their livers before we get there what the heck! Imagine the stock numbers!

Sorry if someone beat me to this one, I've been a little off and not keeping up on all my emails.

> The question is how far is SHADO willing to go to win and
> at what cost
> to our humanity and and also if they fight humanely will not this
> seem as
> weakness to the aliens and cause them to lose? As the cost to
> Earth is either
> being slaves used as breeding stock for organ transplants or
> totally wiped out
> there isn't much choice is there?

UFO was such and innovative show. I wonder if James Cameron was a fan of UFO
and remembered breathing liquid for the ABYSS. scott


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], bedsitter1@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/21/2004 5:53:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> crazygrrl@b... writes:
> Taxes are going up I
> should add to pay for my expenditures!!!
>
> hee hee hee!!! :-)
> Tasha
> It isn't necessary to raise taxes, you could get the extra billion
for your
> purposes by making Alec *pay* for all that whiskey he drinks from
Straker's
> beverage dispenser. Then have a talk with the Moonbase women about
the cost of
> false eyelashes and eye shadow..
>

Thank you for your input and to follow-up:

1. Alec's whiskey has been watered down to a ratio of 1:16

2. The false eyelashes and eye shadow are a part of the uniform.
However as a cost saving measure, I have ordered all the 1960's
vintage hose currently issued to Moonbase personel replaced with
21st century models made from more resistant nylon materials.

3. Moonbase meals will consist of military surplus MRE battle
rations, and what ever is to be found in old NATO warehouses dating
from the 1950's to present as long as the cans don't look to bulged!
(Not being on Moonbase myself, I will enjoy fine cusine at a local
resertaunt)

With these draconian austerity measures in place, I hope to raise
the necessary capital by Spring.

Hugs,
Tasha :-)

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@u...> wrote:
.
> Today however, nobody would even believe that we have a base on
the Moon...
>
> Marc

This is a sad thing Marc. As technologically, we not only have the
means and ability to have lunar bases, but bases on Mars and other
places in the Solar System as well. We are far better equipped
technologically today to go to Mars than we were in 1961 to go to
the Moon when President Kennedy gave his famous Lunar Speach.

Tasha

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Why is SHADO entirely defensive


> > ....Again, that leaves us with the dilemma of OUR side being able to
> >star travel (probe), and if we can do that, then why are we still
confined
> >to just lunar regional travel. We don't see lots of evidence to the
contrary
> >of that in the show.
>
> In THE SOUND OF SILENCE, we see a space probe returning to Earth, with a
> UFO following close behind. In THE MAN WHO CAME BACK, Craig Collins was
> also returning to Earth from *somewhere*. In REFLECTIONS IN THE WATER,
> there is a manned deep space probe monitoring a buildup of UFOs, which is
> destroyed.
>
> Seems like there's *lots* of space travel going on in the series outside
of
> the lunar region.
>
> This is one area where the producers of the new UFO series is definitely
> going to have to make adjustments. Back in the late 1960's, it certainly
> seemed feasible that there'd be lots of progress made in space
exploration.
> Today however, nobody would even believe that we have a base on the
Moon...
>
> Marc
>
>

------------------------------------------------------


That doesn't really prove much. We don't know where those probes were
coming from. Could just be a local planet. The "Cat W Ten Lives" probe was
an unmanned Venus probe wasn't it?

Boy, the real manned space program turned out to be such a
dissappointment compared to the world UFO predicted. I remember as a kid,
people of that time expected so much more of the future programs. Now it's
past 2000, and we're still farting around in LEO. : (

Dave H.

CONTENTS DELETED

At 01:13 AM 2/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>And I'd think an intact UFO would reveal their technology, and Straker could
>make use of it.
>I know part of Henderson's whole whining is probably personal jealousy toward
>the pupil being more successful than the teacher imo, but suppose Henderson
>is playing both sides, and deliberately not letting Straker have funding, not
>letting him have ultimate success , because Henderson is having his palm
>greased by the aliens? That's an intriguing possibility.


Or Henderson is angry because it's taken this long to get some real results
and Straker has let so many opportunities slip through his hands!