ex-military men next profession

Hi Pam,

I gave Denise a copy of all the Air Force/Army ranks along with their Naval counterparts. I might still have it somewhere on my hard drive. It's also on US DOD portal on Wiki, along with pictures of all the rank insigna. UFO used the Army/Air Force variant while Star Trek used the Navy version.

Matt :)

--- In [hidden email], "Pam McCaughey" <mccaug@...> wrote:

> There were at least a couple of Majors, Maj. Graham, who roughed up
> Foster in Exposed and Maj. Kelly who worked on the electronic telescope
> in Close Up. The bomb disposal expert in The Long Sleep was a major as well. :)

I seem to recall near the end of THE CAT WITH TEN LIVES, the lead Interceptor
pilot made a phone call to confirm if Regan was supposed to be flying on the
Venus probe escort mission.  I think he was looking for "Major Heath".  :-)

Marc

What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention it.  But I do believe they say it somewhere.

Lake and Foster were also Colonels.  Does that make them of equal rank to Straker?  Yes, Straker was in charge.

Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point.  Commanding others.  Col Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but had to follow.

Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows Freeman being in charge, giving orders.  Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

Bruce

From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 
Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be a Commander or Lt. Commander.

Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a Colonel in the army or air force.

Matt :)

--- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You're right, there is another one! :) The people we saw on the show were only a small fraction of the staff that an organizasion like SHADO would need.

> I seem to recall near the end of THE CAT WITH TEN LIVES, the lead Interceptor
> pilot made a phone call to confirm if Regan was supposed to be flying on the
> Venus probe escort mission.  I think he was looking for "Major Heath".  :-)
>
> Marc
>

Freeman was a Colonel, as was Lake, Collins, Foster, and Blake (mentioned but never seen).

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:

Thanks for digging up so many Majors.  Most of those I don't recall as being
mention in episode as having that rank particularly Kelly. 

    But I think I did not make my point clear which was I was asking what was
Gerry Anderson problem with the rank of Major as they were so few in UFO.  And
very few in his other series also.
    James K.




________________________________
From: Matt <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 5:15:11 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 
You're right, there is another one! :) The people we saw on the show were only a
small fraction of the staff that an organizasion like SHADO would need.

> I seem to recall near the end of THE CAT WITH TEN LIVES, the lead Interceptor
> pilot made a phone call to confirm if Regan was supposed to be flying on the
> Venus probe escort mission. I think he was looking for "Major Heath". :-)
>
> Marc
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Freeman was a Colonel, as were Lake and Foster, but in the SHADO hierarchy,
Straker was CiC – regardless his USAF rank. Freeman, Foster and Lake were
Straker’s immediate subordinates and outranked everyone else. In the case of
Lake on Sky-diver, she had her mission and it required Sky-diver – but
notice, she gave orders to the captain, not his crew. They were all still
taking orders from *him*. It was still his ship, even though she was giving
him orders.

There is nothing on screen as I recall that indicated that Freeman didn’t
like giving orders or being in charge, even though we didn’t see him giving
orders all that often. However, a number of fan writers (myself included)
have theorized that the reason Freeman was having problems during
Responsibility Seat was that his normal job did not require him to be in
command at HQ – he was Straker’s Chief of Staff or some similar position and
so hadn’t learned to trust this instincts in situations like the ones he was
facing.

But this is conjecture on our parts. He could have just been having a
*really* bad day. *grin*

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 

 

What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention
it. But I do believe they say it somewhere.

Lake and Foster were also Colonels. Does that make them of equal rank to
Straker? Yes, Straker was in charge.

Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point. Commanding others. Col
Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but
had to follow.

Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows
Freeman being in charge, giving orders. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that
Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

Bruce

From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding
officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be
a Commander or Lt. Commander.

Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird
Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a
Colonel in the army or air force.

Matt :)

--- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...>
wrote:
>
> I am not sure about this, but in the US Military, especially the Navy, one
can be a Commander, meaning he is in charge of a ship, but still be also a
Captain too? Or do I have that backwards? A Captain is also a Commander? But
I think Colonel is more Army then Navy.
>
> Still, he could tell his subordinates in the film studio to use Commander
to remind everyone who is in charge?? isn't it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That I cannot answer. It may not have even occurred to him.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Billy Killian
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:26 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 

 

Thanks for digging up so many Majors.  Most of those I don't recall as being

mention in episode as having that rank particularly Kelly.  

    But I think I did not make my point clear which was I was asking what
was
Gerry Anderson problem with the rank of Major as they were so few in UFO.
And
very few in his other series also.
    James K.

________________________________
From: Matt <[hidden email] <mailto:ka1bqp%40hotmail.com> >
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 5:15:11 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 
You're right, there is another one! :) The people we saw on the show were
only a
small fraction of the staff that an organizasion like SHADO would need.

> I seem to recall near the end of THE CAT WITH TEN LIVES, the lead
Interceptor
> pilot made a phone call to confirm if Regan was supposed to be flying on
the
> Venus probe escort mission. I think he was looking for "Major Heath". :-)
>
> Marc
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, I know Col Lake gave verbal instructions to the Captain of Skydiver, not issuing commands himself.  This is normal.  The Bridge on the River Qwai even shows regular prisoners of war only accept orders from officers who are prisoners of war, not their captors.

I cant think of the episode off hand.  But Freeman tries to quit Shado, and in that interchange with Straker, he kind of says he doesn't like being in charge, or something to that effect.

Bruce
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Deborah Rorabaugh
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:36 PM
  Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession


   
  Freeman was a Colonel, as were Lake and Foster, but in the SHADO hierarchy,
  Straker was CiC – regardless his USAF rank. Freeman, Foster and Lake were
  Straker’s immediate subordinates and outranked everyone else. In the case of
  Lake on Sky-diver, she had her mission and it required Sky-diver – but
  notice, she gave orders to the captain, not his crew. They were all still
  taking orders from *him*. It was still his ship, even though she was giving
  him orders.

  There is nothing on screen as I recall that indicated that Freeman didn’t
  like giving orders or being in charge, even though we didn’t see him giving
  orders all that often. However, a number of fan writers (myself included)
  have theorized that the reason Freeman was having problems during
  Responsibility Seat was that his normal job did not require him to be in
  command at HQ – he was Straker’s Chief of Staff or some similar position and
  so hadn’t learned to trust this instincts in situations like the ones he was
  facing.

  But this is conjecture on our parts. He could have just been having a
  *really* bad day. *grin*

  _____

  From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
  Bruce Sherman
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:15 PM
  To: [hidden email]
  Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

  What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention
  it. But I do believe they say it somewhere.

  Lake and Foster were also Colonels. Does that make them of equal rank to
  Straker? Yes, Straker was in charge.

  Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point. Commanding others. Col
  Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but
  had to follow.

  Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows
  Freeman being in charge, giving orders. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that
  Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

  Bruce

  From: Matt
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
  To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
  Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

  Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding
  officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be
  a Commander or Lt. Commander.

  Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird
  Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a
  Colonel in the army or air force.

  Matt :)

  --- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...>
  wrote:
  >
  > I am not sure about this, but in the US Military, especially the Navy, one
  can be a Commander, meaning he is in charge of a ship, but still be also a
  Captain too? Or do I have that backwards? A Captain is also a Commander? But
  I think Colonel is more Army then Navy.
  >
  > Still, he could tell his subordinates in the film studio to use Commander
  to remind everyone who is in charge??
  >
  > Bruce
  >
  > From: Jonathan Andrew Sheen
  > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:01 AM
  > To: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession
  >
  >
  > Hi, Bruce,
  >
  > Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 9:59:24 AM, you wrote:
  >
  > B> There is also this that bothered me about Responsibility
  > B> Seat. Straker feels he must go after Jo to get back the
  > B> recording device because Ford accidently called on the
  > B> speaker phone for ‘Commander Straker’.
  > B> It is no secret that Straker was in the American
  > B> military, easily found out by people like Paul Foster.
  > B> So aren't ex-military still called by their military
  > B> rank? Or is this just something done with American ex-military only?
  > B> So if Jo listened to Straker being called commander, its no big deal,
  isn't it?
  > B> Bruce
  >
  > Straker's military rank was Colonel, not Commander.
  >
  > --
  >
  > Jonathan Andrew Sheen
  >
  > http://www.leviathanstudios.com
  > Leviathan of the GEI (Detached.)
  > mailto:jsheen%40leviathanstudios.com
  >
  > "What'dya expect? I'm a New Yorker!"
  > -Anonymous New York Firefighter, 9/12/01
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

While they might only answer for budget reasons to another agency, it is the power of the purse strings.

I learnt this a long time ago about the commander in chief here in the United States, while the President can order forces wherever he wants, it is congress that controls the budget.  And you cant move a Air Craft Carrier fleet without fuel :)

Bruce
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: .
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:51 AM
  Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession


   
  i believe, and this has probably changed since i first heard it,
  that anything to do with boats, ships, and airplanes, including space travel falls under the authority of the navy. so since skydiver, and those shuttles to the moon are involved, that might be why the title of supreeme commander might be used. interesting complexity in the show. what authority commands shado, or is it one all on its own and only answers to a budget?
  Â i have to go, but i will be back in 6-7 hours.
  jim

  --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]> wrote:

  From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]>
  Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession
  To: [hidden email]
  Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 7:43 AM

  Â  

  But still, the *act* of Straker going after the tape would cause a real
  reporter's spidey sense to go into overtime. If Jo was looking to record
  something like a contract negotiation, or even something incriminating, it
  didn't happen. Straker was out of the office.

  The hand bag wasn't even in the office long enough to catch much of anything
  - unless she was planning to plant a more hidden bug when she went back for
  her purse. (Oooh - plot idea *grin*)

  And SHADO's cover story should really be air-tight enough to cope with
  something like Ford's voice being recorded in the office, even calling
  Straker 'Commander'. Slips happen - but the call system shouldn't have had a
  voice come over it at all unless the receive button was pushed. It was
  necessary for the plot, but it really shouldn't have happened. (another of
  those plot holes big enough to run Sky-diver through *grin*)

  As some one has mentioned, calling a USAF Colonel 'Commander' would be a
  little weird - but you could say that the studio has (or had) a wag from the
  Navy (or who really liked Gilbert & Sullivan) who gave Straker a nick-name
  (as in he's 'Commander' of the HMS Harlington-Straker or something) and
  unfortunately for Straker, it stuck. *grin*.

  Not saying it's a *good* cover story, mind you - it just has to be somewhat
  plausible.

  _____

  From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
  Jonathan Andrew Sheen
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:02 AM
  To: [hidden email]
  Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

  Hi, Bruce,

  Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 9:59:24 AM, you wrote:

  B> There is also this that bothered me about Responsibility
  B> Seat. Straker feels he must go after Jo to get back the
  B> recording device because Ford accidently called on the
  B> speaker phone for 'Commander Straker'.
  B> It is no secret that Straker was in the American
  B> military, easily found out by people like Paul Foster.
  B> So aren't ex-military still called by their military
  B> rank? Or is this just something done with American ex-military only?
  B> So if Jo listened to Straker being called commander, its no big deal,
  isn't it?
  B> Bruce

  Straker's military rank was Colonel, not Commander.

  --

  Jonathan Andrew Sheen

  http://www.leviathanstudios.com
  Leviathan of the GEI (Detached.)
  [hidden email] <mailto:jsheen%40leviathanstudios.com>

  "What'dya expect? I'm a New Yorker!"
  -Anonymous New York Firefighter, 9/12/01

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The episode where Freeman hands in his resignation was Computer Affair. The actual conversation was about Straker relying on computers over people to make his decisions – something Freeman disagreed with on a fundamental level.

There’s a similar conversation in Flight Path, where Freeman disagrees with Straker’s black and white view of Roper’s treason.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:06 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 

 

Yes, I know Col Lake gave verbal instructions to the Captain of Skydiver, not issuing commands himself. This is normal. The Bridge on the River Qwai even shows regular prisoners of war only accept orders from officers who are prisoners of war, not their captors.

I cant think of the episode off hand. But Freeman tries to quit Shado, and in that interchange with Straker, he kind of says he doesn't like being in charge, or something to that effect.

Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Rorabaugh
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Freeman was a Colonel, as were Lake and Foster, but in the SHADO hierarchy,
Straker was CiC – regardless his USAF rank. Freeman, Foster and Lake were
Straker’s immediate subordinates and outranked everyone else. In the case of
Lake on Sky-diver, she had her mission and it required Sky-diver – but
notice, she gave orders to the captain, not his crew. They were all still
taking orders from *him*. It was still his ship, even though she was giving
him orders.

There is nothing on screen as I recall that indicated that Freeman didn’t
like giving orders or being in charge, even though we didn’t see him giving
orders all that often. However, a number of fan writers (myself included)
have theorized that the reason Freeman was having problems during
Responsibility Seat was that his normal job did not require him to be in
command at HQ – he was Straker’s Chief of Staff or some similar position and
so hadn’t learned to trust this instincts in situations like the ones he was
facing.

But this is conjecture on our parts. He could have just been having a
*really* bad day. *grin*

_____

From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:15 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention
it. But I do believe they say it somewhere.

Lake and Foster were also Colonels. Does that make them of equal rank to
Straker? Yes, Straker was in charge.

Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point. Commanding others. Col
Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but
had to follow.

Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows
Freeman being in charge, giving orders. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that
Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

Bruce

From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding
officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be
a Commander or Lt. Commander.

Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird
Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a
Colonel in the army or air force.

Matt :)

--- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...>
wrote:
>
> I am not sure about this, but in the US Military, especially the Navy, one
can be a Commander, meaning he is in charge of a ship, but still be also a
Captain too? Or do I have that backwards? A Captain is also a Commander? But
I think Colonel is more Army then Navy.
>
> Still, he could tell his subordinates in the film studio to use Commander
to remind everyone who is in charge?? isn't it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Perhaps that is why Straker... or even higher ups, wont allow Freeman in a leadership role, because he doesn't want to rely on computers over people?

Bruce
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Deborah Rorabaugh
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:49 PM
  Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession


   
  The episode where Freeman hands in his resignation was Computer Affair. The actual conversation was about Straker relying on computers over people to make his decisions – something Freeman disagreed with on a fundamental level.

  There’s a similar conversation in Flight Path, where Freeman disagrees with Straker’s black and white view of Roper’s treason.

  _____

  From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Sherman
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:06 PM
  To: [hidden email]
  Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

  Yes, I know Col Lake gave verbal instructions to the Captain of Skydiver, not issuing commands himself. This is normal. The Bridge on the River Qwai even shows regular prisoners of war only accept orders from officers who are prisoners of war, not their captors.

  I cant think of the episode off hand. But Freeman tries to quit Shado, and in that interchange with Straker, he kind of says he doesn't like being in charge, or something to that effect.

  Bruce
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Deborah Rorabaugh
  To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:36 PM
  Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

  Freeman was a Colonel, as were Lake and Foster, but in the SHADO hierarchy,
  Straker was CiC – regardless his USAF rank. Freeman, Foster and Lake were
  Straker’s immediate subordinates and outranked everyone else. In the case of
  Lake on Sky-diver, she had her mission and it required Sky-diver – but
  notice, she gave orders to the captain, not his crew. They were all still
  taking orders from *him*. It was still his ship, even though she was giving
  him orders.

  There is nothing on screen as I recall that indicated that Freeman didn’t
  like giving orders or being in charge, even though we didn’t see him giving
  orders all that often. However, a number of fan writers (myself included)
  have theorized that the reason Freeman was having problems during
  Responsibility Seat was that his normal job did not require him to be in
  command at HQ – he was Straker’s Chief of Staff or some similar position and
  so hadn’t learned to trust this instincts in situations like the ones he was
  facing.

  But this is conjecture on our parts. He could have just been having a
  *really* bad day. *grin*

  _____

  From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
  Bruce Sherman
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:15 PM
  To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
  Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

  What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention
  it. But I do believe they say it somewhere.

  Lake and Foster were also Colonels. Does that make them of equal rank to
  Straker? Yes, Straker was in charge.

  Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point. Commanding others. Col
  Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but
  had to follow.

  Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows
  Freeman being in charge, giving orders. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that
  Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

  Bruce

  From: Matt
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
  To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
  Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

  Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding
  officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be
  a Commander or Lt. Commander.

  Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird
  Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a
  Colonel in the army or air force.

  Matt :)

  --- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...>
  wrote:
  >
  > I am not sure about this, but in the US Military, especially the Navy, one
  can be a Commander, meaning he is in charge of a ship, but still be also a
  Captain too? Or do I have that backwards? A Captain is also a Commander? But
  I think Colonel is more Army then Navy.
  >
  > Still, he could tell his subordinates in the film studio to use Commander
  to remind everyone who is in charge??
  >
  > Bruce
  >
  > From: Jonathan Andrew Sheen
  > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:01 AM
  > To: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession
  >
  >
  > Hi, Bruce,
  >
  > Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 9:59:24 AM, you wrote:
  >
  > B> There is also this that bothered me about Responsibility
  > B> Seat. Straker feels he must go after Jo to get back the
  > B> recording device because Ford accidently called on the
  > B> speaker phone for ‘Commander Straker’.
  > B> It is no secret that Straker was in the American
  > B> military, easily found out by people like Paul Foster.
  > B> So aren't ex-military still called by their military
  > B> rank? Or is this just something done with American ex-military only?
  > B> So if Jo listened to Straker being called commander, its no big deal,
  isn't it?
  > B> Bruce
  >
  > Straker's military rank was Colonel, not Commander.
  >
  > --
  >
  > Jonathan Andrew Sheen
  >
  > http://www.leviathanstudios.com
  > Leviathan of the GEI (Detached.)
  > mailto:jsheen%40leviathanstudios.com
  >
  > "What'dya expect? I'm a New Yorker!"
  > -Anonymous New York Firefighter, 9/12/01
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
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I personally think it’s more that Freeman, a pilot and former intelligence officer, simply prefers a more support-oriented role. We see him in command of the retrieval operation and doing just fine in Computer Affair. He was placed in command of HQ in Responsibility Seat. In A Question of Priorities, he steps up and makes decisions while Straker is pre-occupied.

But some people simply prefer to not be the boss. That’s not to say that Freeman couldn’t take command of SHADO and do a decent job if there was a need - just that he would prefer not to.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:13 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 

 

Perhaps that is why Straker... or even higher ups, wont allow Freeman in a leadership role, because he doesn't want to rely on computers over people?

Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Rorabaugh
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

The episode where Freeman hands in his resignation was Computer Affair. The actual conversation was about Straker relying on computers over people to make his decisions – something Freeman disagreed with on a fundamental level.

There’s a similar conversation in Flight Path, where Freeman disagrees with Straker’s black and white view of Roper’s treason.

_____

From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:06 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Yes, I know Col Lake gave verbal instructions to the Captain of Skydiver, not issuing commands himself. This is normal. The Bridge on the River Qwai even shows regular prisoners of war only accept orders from officers who are prisoners of war, not their captors.

I cant think of the episode off hand. But Freeman tries to quit Shado, and in that interchange with Straker, he kind of says he doesn't like being in charge, or something to that effect.

Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Rorabaugh
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Freeman was a Colonel, as were Lake and Foster, but in the SHADO hierarchy,
Straker was CiC – regardless his USAF rank. Freeman, Foster and Lake were
Straker’s immediate subordinates and outranked everyone else. In the case of
Lake on Sky-diver, she had her mission and it required Sky-diver – but
notice, she gave orders to the captain, not his crew. They were all still
taking orders from *him*. It was still his ship, even though she was giving
him orders.

There is nothing on screen as I recall that indicated that Freeman didn’t
like giving orders or being in charge, even though we didn’t see him giving
orders all that often. However, a number of fan writers (myself included)
have theorized that the reason Freeman was having problems during
Responsibility Seat was that his normal job did not require him to be in
command at HQ – he was Straker’s Chief of Staff or some similar position and
so hadn’t learned to trust this instincts in situations like the ones he was
facing.

But this is conjecture on our parts. He could have just been having a
*really* bad day. *grin*

_____

From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:15 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention
it. But I do believe they say it somewhere.

Lake and Foster were also Colonels. Does that make them of equal rank to
Straker? Yes, Straker was in charge.

Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point. Commanding others. Col
Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but
had to follow.

Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows
Freeman being in charge, giving orders. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that
Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

Bruce

From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding
officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be
a Commander or Lt. Commander.

Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird
Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a
Colonel in the army or air force.

Matt :)

--- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...>
wrote:
>
> I am not sure about this, but in the US Military, especially the Navy, one
can be a Commander, meaning he is in charge of a ship, but still be also a
Captain too? Or do I have that backwards? A Captain is also a Commander? But
I think Colonel is more Army then Navy.
>
> Still, he could tell his subordinates in the film studio to use Commander
to remind everyone who is in charge?? isn't it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i seem to recall freeman giving a direct order on his authority and full responsiblity to shoot to stop the russian rover on the moon so that it wouldnt ram moonbase.
jim

--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 3:36 PM


 



Freeman was a Colonel, as were Lake and Foster, but in the SHADO hierarchy,
Straker was CiC – regardless his USAF rank. Freeman, Foster and Lake were
Straker’s immediate subordinates and outranked everyone else. In the case of
Lake on Sky-diver, she had her mission and it required Sky-diver – but
notice, she gave orders to the captain, not his crew. They were all still
taking orders from *him*. It was still his ship, even though she was giving
him orders.

There is nothing on screen as I recall that indicated that Freeman didn’t
like giving orders or being in charge, even though we didn’t see him giving
orders all that often. However, a number of fan writers (myself included)
have theorized that the reason Freeman was having problems during
Responsibility Seat was that his normal job did not require him to be in
command at HQ – he was Straker’s Chief of Staff or some similar position and
so hadn’t learned to trust this instincts in situations like the ones he was
facing.

But this is conjecture on our parts. He could have just been having a
*really* bad day. *grin*

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention
it. But I do believe they say it somewhere.

Lake and Foster were also Colonels. Does that make them of equal rank to
Straker? Yes, Straker was in charge.

Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point. Commanding others. Col
Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but
had to follow.

Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows
Freeman being in charge, giving orders. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that
Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

Bruce

From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding
officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be
a Commander or Lt. Commander.

Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird
Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a
Colonel in the army or air force.

Matt :)

--- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...>
wrote:
>
> I am not sure about this, but in the US Military, especially the Navy, one
can be a Commander, meaning he is in charge of a ship, but still be also a
Captain too? Or do I have that backwards? A Captain is also a Commander? But
I think Colonel is more Army then Navy.
>
> Still, he could tell his subordinates in the film studio to use Commander
to remind everyone who is in charge?? isn't it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yep and Col Foster ignored his order.  Col Freeman wasn’t too happy to give that order.  To borrow from Star Trek, The Kobashi Maru test.  On the next generation, their version was they wanted you to command someone to give up his life to save the ship.  I don’t think Col Freeman would have passed the test.

Bruce

From: .
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

 
i seem to recall freeman giving a direct order on his authority and full responsiblity to shoot to stop the russian rover on the moon so that it wouldnt ram moonbase.
jim

--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Deborah Rorabaugh <mailto:momkat%40dandello.net> wrote:

From: Deborah Rorabaugh <mailto:momkat%40dandello.net>
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession
To: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 3:36 PM

 

Freeman was a Colonel, as were Lake and Foster, but in the SHADO hierarchy,
Straker was CiC – regardless his USAF rank. Freeman, Foster and Lake were
Straker’s immediate subordinates and outranked everyone else. In the case of
Lake on Sky-diver, she had her mission and it required Sky-diver – but
notice, she gave orders to the captain, not his crew. They were all still
taking orders from *him*. It was still his ship, even though she was giving
him orders.

There is nothing on screen as I recall that indicated that Freeman didn’t
like giving orders or being in charge, even though we didn’t see him giving
orders all that often. However, a number of fan writers (myself included)
have theorized that the reason Freeman was having problems during
Responsibility Seat was that his normal job did not require him to be in
command at HQ – he was Straker’s Chief of Staff or some similar position and
so hadn’t learned to trust this instincts in situations like the ones he was
facing.

But this is conjecture on our parts. He could have just been having a
*really* bad day. *grin*

_____

From: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Sherman
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:15 PM
To: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

What rank was Freeman? Colonel? I cant think of a scene where they mention
it. But I do believe they say it somewhere.

Lake and Foster were also Colonels. Does that make them of equal rank to
Straker? Yes, Straker was in charge.

Col. Foster was in charge of Moonbase at some point. Commanding others. Col
Lake was seen giving orders to Skydiver that the Captain didn’t like, but
had to follow.

Except for Responsibility Seat, I don’t remember any episode that shows
Freeman being in charge, giving orders. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that
Freeman doesn’t like giving orders?

Bruce

From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:56 PM
To: mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: ex-military men next profession

Yes, in the US Navy, and probably the British Royal Navy, the commanding
officer of a vessel is refered to as Captain, even though he (or she) may be
a Commander or Lt. Commander.

Straker's position was Commander in Chief, but he was still a full bird
Colonel (O6) in the USAF. A Captain in the navy is the same rank as a
Colonel in the army or air force.

Matt :)

--- In mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...>
wrote:
>
> I am not sure about this, but in the US Military, especially the Navy, one
can be a Commander, meaning he is in charge of a ship, but still be also a
Captain too? Or do I have that backwards? A Captain is also a Commander? But
I think Colonel is more Army then Navy.
>
> Still, he could tell his subordinates in the film studio to use Commander
to remind everyone who is in charge?? isn't it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It IS the Supreme Headquarters, but I agree.

On 23 June 2011 03:50, Bruce Sherman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Supreme Commander sounds a little too much.
>
> Bruce
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, Colonel is Army, Marine Corps, Air Force and Commander is Navy. A
Commander can be Captain of a ship and the crew COULD call him Captain,
even though he's just a Commander, but they would PROBABLY call him
Skipper instead.

As for reminding them who's in charge - LOL! Well, they COULD explain it
that way, but that would just make him seem arrogant and egotistical.

:)

Y

PS: No Commander rank in the Marines. A Colonel is, I believe,
equivilant to a Captain in the Navy.



Bruce Sherman wrote:

In multi-national forces such as NATO, and during WWII, Supreme Commander is
used for the person who is leading the multi-national forces. Eisenhower was the
first Supreme Commander of NATO and was the Supreme Commander of the Allied
forces during WWII. I think Supreme Headquarters term was use too during the
war.

Since SHADO is multi-national in makeup, this might be why the script writers
went with Supreme Headquarters and Commander terminology.






________________________________

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