interceptor

>Is there any web site that has information on a NEW UFO series? I seem
>to be coming in on the end of a conversation about the new series.

There was a single news release from October of last year, which now
appears on a variety of websites. Go to Google, and do a search for
articles which contain the following words:

UFO, Cartlon, Trilogy Entertainment, Pen Desham

I haven't heard anything since, although it sounds like the upcoming issue
of FAB magazine may have some more information (expected within the next 2
weeks)

Marc

----- Original Message -----
From: "Griff" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:25 AM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: interceptor


> Mmm... there are many references to the UFO's travelling at or exceeding
the
------------------------------------------------------

Numbers don't lie, if you assume all those things. Good point.

Still kind of hard to wrap the mind around some of the speed assumptions
that Gerry and his gang assigned to these ships, *especially* the earth
ships/interceptors.

Interception is a difficult thing, it requires much higher performance
than the inbound ship being intercepted.

Imagine this - a UFO inbound at SOL 8 as you say -
Now we, as the supposed lesser race, less technologically advanced, have to
detect it, determine it's course and arrival point, launch our own ship,
which has to go out there and meet it, and turn and match it's speed, spike
a lock on it, and hit it with a missile.

You HAVE to be able to match it's speed, otherwise they would be evading
us all the time by simply altering course on the way in, once we launched.

Imagine the crossing speeds of these two ships - many multiple times the
speed of light. There would be no such thing as a visual contact.

Truth be told, you couldn't use manned interception vehicles for such a
mission. You'd need some sort of a computerized particle beam weapon system
to spray those things as they came in.

It's one of those kind of cold water type realities that you don't like
to think about, because it spoils the fun of the show.

Dave H.

Hi Kevin and Doug,

I don't know the practicality of pushing/docking/boosting an object
with the inertial mass of SID with an adaptor ring designed to fit
onto a thermonuclear warhead. I'm sorry fellas, but to me that is
just simply insane. A much better and far more feasable concept
would have been to use a spacetug, or transfer shuttle, or similar
to do the job. Using one of the three interceptors is like using an
F-15 to deliver mail. It can be done, but what a waste!

To the cockpit: I love the idea of the entire cockpit lowered as a
unit and sealed in place. This wouldn't take too much to do
actually, if all the controls would slide into connectors and the
cockpit assembly slides in on rails. But why cannot the canopy be
both hinged to allow opening without the removal of the entire
assembly, as well contain explosive bolts to remove it in an instant
for ejection. Also - please note that the pilots DID NOT wear
pressure suits. Ejecting in space without a pressure suit is the
same as committing suecide - regardless of what Kurbrik showed David
Bowman doing in 2001: A Space Odyessy. But even then, considering
Bowman was wearing a pressure suit and he was in the vacuum maybe 10
seconds (never mind the radiation) it is remotely believable.

What I don't understand is that UFO had beautiful pressure suits (as
did 1999 and 2001). Why where the pilots not fitted with the
pressure suits? They should have been at the ready stations in
pressure suits minus gloves and helmet.

Hugs,
Tasha :-)

Hi :)

<snip> I don't know the practicality of pushing/docking/boosting an object
with the inertial mass of SID with an adaptor ring designed to fit onto a
thermonuclear warhead. I'm sorry fellas, but to me that is just simply
insane. A much better and far more feasable concept would have been to use a
spacetug, or transfer shuttle, or similar to do the job. Using one of the
three interceptors is like using an F-15 to deliver mail. It can be done,
but what a waste!
<snip>

That's probably why in 'The man who came back' Straker and Collins
approached SID in what looked like a 'lifting body' (similar to the HL-10 or
M3F2) ...also, they didn't so much dock with SID, as sidle up along side,
and float across.

In 1974 (I believe) there was the Apollo/Soyuz link-up (where Nasa used a
Saturn V (would have been Apollo 18 I believe) to link up to a Russian Soyuz
capsule using an adapter constructed to fit both craft. I understand the
overriding problem was that the mass of both craft (The Apollo capsule was
the craft that also took the adapter ring) was massively different.

As with Gemini and Agena, docking Apollo Capsule with Lunar Module, Apollo
with SkyLab, MIR with Soyuz, International Space Station with Space
Shuttle/Soyuz capsule.... differing masses of the two converging craft is
not a problem.

My guess is that for an Interceptor to dock with SID, it would not be
equipped with a missile, in fact if you look at any front-on picture of an
Interceptor, the front (behind missile) looks suspiciously like a docking
ring with attachment holes - certainly similar to designs used in
Gemini/Athena/Gemini

Best, Griff

I was always confused how they judged speed on UFO. On trek they used
parsecs, meters, inches, whatever. Now as an adult you have to suspend your belief
because they intercepters did not move at the speed of light or you would not
have been able to see them. UFO was fun because of the stories most of the time
were great. I did not realise when i was younger that they only had one
missle. I have read that G. andersons idea was when they detonated several charges
detonated around the UFO which is why the interceptors did work most of the
time. But for stories they could not be perfect. scott


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<My guess is that for an Interceptor to dock with SID, it would not be
equipped with a missile, in fact if you look at any front-on picture of
an
Interceptor, the front (behind missile) looks suspiciously like a
docking
ring with attachment holes - certainly similar to designs used in
Gemini/Athena/Gemini>>

I like this idea, Griff. Makes better sense and, as you say, explains
the detail on that boss behind the missile.

Just to clarify, am I correct in thinking that nobody has ever seen an
interceptor with the canopy hinged open? Would it make sense for the
hinge to be at the top, because that's where I'd intend to articulate
it.

Cheers,

Kevin

P.S. this has certainly got everybody's grey matter flexing!

<snip>
I like this idea, Griff. Makes better sense and, as you say, explains the
detail on that boss behind the missile.

Just to clarify, am I correct in thinking that nobody has ever seen an
interceptor with the canopy hinged open? Would it make sense for the hinge
to be at the top, because that's where I'd intend to articulate it.
<snip>

Mmm... yes, I guess one outstanding problem is that if an Interceptor is
designed to dock with SID, how does the astronaut EVA and gain access to
SID? I suppose it is possible that for that mission the Moonbase astronaut
could wear a full spacesuit?

Maybe the idea of Interceptors or indeed other SHADO equipment docking with
SID was thought of during the conception of the series, but never developed
and hence never fully thought through as a concept.

Of course, most (if not all of this is speculation on my part), but hey,
that's half the fun :)

I've been a fan of UFO ever since I was an embryo, and I have never seen ANY
picture of an Interceptor with an open cockpit or any reference or clue as
to how an astronaut gains access. What I love about UFO is the number of
questions it raises, and the wonderful way it allows one mind to create
scenarios, and what-if's. Half the Genius of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson's
work was about what they left out, as well as the tremendous detail they out
in. I guess that why as a kid, it was such a great series to act out, it
gave ones mind plenty of juicy plots, hardware, people, adventures, and
still left unanswered questions for 'you' to fill in... perfect psychology
for children.

I think that's where many TV/Films go wrong today; they do not allow much
room for ones mind to fill in gaps/speculate, they all seem intent on
detail/playing out every single last action... it makes one purely an
observer rather a 'potential' participant. The movie people think that
making merchandise is the way into viewer participation, but they are wrong,
and merely further alienate the audience even further.

Children really believe their fantasies/games, and generally live in a
mixture of reality and their mind. UFO (and indeed most Gerry Anderson
production) were/are a great canvas to create mind-games/what-if's... well,
at least when I was a lad ;)

Oh well... better get on with things...

Best to all... Griff

Also - please note that the pilots DID NOT wear
> pressure suits. Ejecting in space without a pressure suit is the
> same as committing suecide - regardless of what Kurbrik showed
David
> Bowman doing in 2001: A Space Odyessy. But even then, considering
> Bowman was wearing a pressure suit and he was in the vacuum maybe
10
> seconds (never mind the radiation) it is remotely believable.
>
> What I don't understand is that UFO had beautiful pressure suits
(as
> did 1999 and 2001). Why where the pilots not fitted with the
> pressure suits? They should have been at the ready stations in
> pressure suits minus gloves and helmet.
>
> Hugs,
> Tasha :-)

Tasha, regarding pressure suits in 'UFO': Again, Gerry Anderson & Co.
did not show the pilots of the Lunar Module using pressurized suits
during flights either. That is a 'no-no' if they wanted to be more
realistic. I guess due to bugetary constraints not everything that
should be 'correct proceedure' in the real world was going to be
shown.

BTW, the Lunar Module and Lunar Carrier are two of my favorite
vehicles from the show.

Doug

[Mmm... yes, I guess one outstanding problem is that if an
Interceptor is
designed to dock with SID, how does the astronaut EVA and gain access
to
SID? I suppose it is possible that for that mission the Moonbase
astronaut
could wear a full spacesuit?]

Griff, nice post!

As to answer the above: yes. An astronaut in an Interceptor would
have to be wearing a spacesuit to enter SID from that docking port.
The access port is that hole beneath the S.I.D. lettering. You can
clearly see the docking clamps in any picture of SID. My friend
surmised that they never showed an Interceptor docked with SID
because a story was never scripted to indicate their use. In "The Man
Who Came Back" Straker and Collins were going to repair the damage to
SID that looked more external than internal (but we can surmise there
was both).

Another thing that makes sense about a docking port with SID is that
there was a full-scale interior set of SID built (for the actors to
walk onto). We see it in most episodes where the voice of SID is
reporting a UFO sighting...it is a room with electronic paneling
(similar to the 'nerve center' of HAL in 2001). Gerry & Co. wouldn't
have went through the trouble to build that if they weren't planning
to use it. Guess the series didn't last long enough for them to
script a story around SID being repaired or getting a 'system
upgrade' from the inside.

Just some random thoughts...
Doug

You don't think that was a miniature set? Even if it was a full-size
set, there really wasn't much to it - it would have been easy to
fold up and store for re-use, or to just recreate it, so if they
ever did want to show people inside it would have been easy enough.

Bill


--- In [hidden email], "Doug" <brt1227@y...> wrote:
>
> Another thing that makes sense about a docking port with SID is
that
> there was a full-scale interior set of SID built (for the actors
to
> walk onto). We see it in most episodes where the voice of SID is
> reporting a UFO sighting...it is a room with electronic paneling
> (similar to the 'nerve center' of HAL in 2001). Gerry & Co.
wouldn't
> have went through the trouble to build that if they weren't
planning
> to use it. Guess the series didn't last long enough for them to
> script a story around SID being repaired or getting a 'system
> upgrade' from the inside.
>
> Just some random thoughts...
> Doug

I think the 90 second launch is an ideal that is used more as a training goal rather then set in stone. Better to have launch times as short as possible since we have seen that they don't always have that much warning.
If you knew that the average travel time for an ICBM from Russia was 18 minutes, but a sub could have one here in three minutes or less, would you train to deploy Patriots in two minutes or ten minutes?
A point to ponder.
On the subject of how pilots get in and out of the Interceptor, I have never even heard of anyone attempting to explain it with any believability.
A docking ring like in 99 would have to encompass the entire front end of the ship to get a good seal and god alone knows how much time that would take.
Cockpit being inserted as in Space Above and Beyond would also take time and we don't know where they would drop them from.
Even if the cockpit canopy is hinged in the front, explaining the need for the post in front, you still have the problem of getting the pilot into the craft without pressurizing the whole bay. Where is an early model of the Transporter when you need it?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 7:53 AM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: interceptor (and SID connection)


------------------------------------------------------

Why the fascination with using an interceptor to take a man to SID? It
is purely impractical, since it has no room for supplies, spare parts,
tools, equipment, and extra men for help, etc.

The interceptors are a mission specific vehicle, meant to go out and
kill an inbound UFO, not serve as a transport ship for a maintenance man.
For that you would use something like that lifting body Straker and Collins
used in "Man Who Came Back" or the Lunar Module. Those are much more suited
to the role, and have been shown in the program for such use. Also an Earth
based mission is much more practical than one sent all the way over from the
moon.

Interceptor pilots are never shown wearing a space suit anyway, and it
is doubtful that one could be stowed and then changed into anyway, while
strapped into that seat in that tiny cockpit. It's simply not practical.
It's hard enough just putting on a jacket while strapped into a 5 point
aircraft harness seat, or even a car seat, let alone putting on pants,
jacket, or an all one piece heavy spacesuit garnment, backpack, and hooking
up all the electrical and air supply hose links.

Even worse, try doing that in an emergency, when the ship is on fire and
tumbling wildly all about after you've taken a hit....

Dave H.

Griff, when i was a kid i watched UFO at 3am. Almost got in trouble a few
times because i was only 10. i did not worry about several UFO isms. 1. The
interceptor only had one missile. 2. the computers were unbelievabley slow. 3.
Straker was a Hard Ass. 4. The women were in command over the men sometimes.
I was a kid i just enjoyed blowing those things out of the sky. Now i am 42
and i know why all these things were in the show. That is why i am in this
club. it is fun to hear all the arguments about things that I know about but
never had anyone to share with. scott


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], "Doug" <brt1227@y...> wrote:

> Another thing that makes sense about a docking port with SID is
that
> there was a full-scale interior set of SID built (for the actors to
> walk onto).

FAB29 intimates that the SID interior was only built at 1/3rd scale.

Regards,
Barry

--- In [hidden email], "Kevin Bulmer" <kevin@s...> wrote:
> Whoa! Now there's an interesting idea, clamp 2 vessels together by a
> single high explosive charge. A recipe for disaster?

Who said it had to be a live round, it could have been a training
round? Why not a special pod containing more fuel to make the journey
to Earth's orbit and back.

Regards,
Barry

--- In [hidden email], "naughtyhector"
<barry_john.hinchliffe@n...> wrote:
> --- In [hidden email], "Doug" <brt1227@y...> wrote:
>
> > Another thing that makes sense about a docking port with SID is
> that
> > there was a full-scale interior set of SID built (for the actors
to
> > walk onto).
>
> FAB29 intimates that the SID interior was only built at 1/3rd scale.
>
> Regards,
> Barry

OK...my friend who had scratch-built a large SID model (very nice
detailing I might ad) told me that he believed it to be a full-scale
mockup. If not, then that blows the 'Moonbase crew inside SID set
concept'.

> > --- In [hidden email], "Doug" <brt1227@y...> wrote:
If not, then that blows the 'Moonbase crew inside SID set
> concept'.

Not necessarily. They could have used a spacesuited puppet with the
puppet scale interior, constructed one small section of wallpanel
lifesize with a head and shoulder shot of a real actor.

Regards,
Barry

----- Original Message -----
From: "naughtyhector" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 4:44 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: interceptor (and SID connection)


>
> Who said it had to be a live round, it could have been a training
> round? Why not a special pod containing more fuel to make the journey
> to Earth's orbit and back.
>
> Regards,
> Barry
>
>


-----------------------------------------------------


If the Interceptors need a special extra fuel pod just to go to the Earth
and back, how then could they routinely go out millions of miles into space
at the speed of light to intercept UFO's every day?

Dave H.

--- In [hidden email], "davrecon" <davrecon@n...> wrote:

> If the Interceptors need a special extra fuel pod just to go to the
Earth
> and back, how then could they routinely go out millions of miles
into space
> at the speed of light to intercept UFO's every day?


But if they went to SID they would be in Earth's gravity field which
is much greater than the Moon's and may need extra fuel to get out of
orbit. Who said the Interceptors had a FTL drive?

Regards,
Barry

> If the Interceptors need a special extra fuel pod just to go to
> the Earth and back, how then could they routinely go out millions
> of miles into space at the speed of light to intercept UFO's
> every day?

I know it's quite a common belief, but in my view it's a
misconception that the Interceptors travel at anything near the
speed of light. I know there's something in the canon that supports
the idea that they do by implication (can't remember what) but it's
best, I think, to consider this a mistake and ignore it. I just
can't accept that we're supposed to think of them travelling at that
speed. It's not really suggested by the action sequences in which
they appear and it's far, far too advanced a technical
accomplishment for humanity to achieve over ten years from 1970.

They are really just mobile missile platforms which are used to lob
nuclear warheads into the path of approaching UFOs.

The whole idea of the Interceptors is rather frustrating frankly
- it doesn't make sense to intercept incoming UFOs from the
Moon. A network of equidistant orbiting space stations with
Interceptor launch platforms would have been a better idea.