Posted by andelendir on
URL: https://www.shado-forum.com/New-in-the-SHADO-Library-tp3037403p3066697.html

Hi Marc,
 

> And what timeline is that exactly?

A rough outlay of the timeline can be found here:

http://edstraker.net/en/june2011/articles/273/Mary%27s-Place-or-Who-is-to-Blame.htm

However, a more anal, err, precise timeline will be established on the wiki.

> Perhaps I need to rewatch CONFETTI CHECK A-OK again, but I
> don't recall any exact dates for when thingstook place.

1. The meeting takes place in the spring that SHADO is supposed to start basic functionality.

Qualifier: Discussion between Ed and Alec in the winter following Mary's announcement that she is pregnant and prior to the meeting

Alec: Well, the control complex is complete, fully operational. All we need now are the technicians.
Ed: How is the first batch of recruits making out?
Alec: Security checks, aptitude tests, six-month training, more tests. It's a tough schedule. The original 50 have been whittled down to eight.
Ed: Eight?
Alec: Yes. The second batch seem to be doing better,
Ed: When do we expect the first group to finish their training?
Alec: A few months. It'll be spring. A good time to start.
Ed: Spring. My son will be born in the spring.
Alec: Your son? How do y...

Alec clearly says that HQ is completed at that point (this takes at least 6-7 years! Makes this discussion early winter 1976 or 1977). And he also says that the HQ operatives will be ready in spring. Ed drives back to Mary just prior to her birthing AFTER the meeting, so that is the correct spring we see there and not an earlier one.

2. It takes place when Straker's son is born (see above)

3. It is the end of Straker's long, main amount of work of setting everything up (hinted at to Mary, shown by his relief and guilty bouquet of flowers as he drives home)

4. The meeting itself clarifies what it is about.

Ed: Well, it's been a long hard slog, but we're ready. We're ready.I know how hard you've all worked, I think we can assume the worst is over. And I want to thank you all.

The date is both hinted at in the UNO-meeting ("7 to 10 years"), and pinpointed by a) the milestones coming before it, b) Identified (dated to August 24th 1980) and actually also by c) Ford's comment about when he joined SHADO. Another defining date is John's death, which takes place well after Identified, but not much later than 1984, and he doesn't look or behave much younger than 7 y/o.

So...

The meeting takes place either spring 1976 or spring 1977. Given that Lightcudder just dated the modern content of Identified for me to August 24th 1980 (Lake is reading the newspaper of that date), I by now tend to place that meeting spring 1977, with Ford being vague in his months in his quote.

>It seems to me that the meeting in Nina Barry's apartment
>could have occurred anywhere between 1971 - 1979.

No, Marc. The events in CCAOK are linear, a row of events one after the other. Why just one event would happen outside this row, particularly the one which happens to be most convenient for an argument against what is such a clear dating of events, you'd need to sell me far better than that. Just to be contrary is not sufficient ;-).  

As you can see above, the meeting took place AFTER the SHADO headquarters were built, AFTER the recruits were tested and trained. Alec says HQ will be coming operative then.

Also, the flashback that we see isn't in any way arthousey or artsy (as in what is currently done with this movie gimmick). It's basic straight oldfashioned filmmaking: the showing of milestone events down a timeline, showing a development between a point A (marriage) and point B (birth of son), triggered by the witnessing of a father's joy at SHADO HQ.

Additionally we get other flashbacks in UFO and they happen to all have been linear and pretty much in order of time they take place.

> And no matter what year you choose, it would NOT be believable,
> because there is no way they could have built all of that SHADO
> hardware in 10 years. A lot of that technology is unachievable,
> even today. :-)

We get a clear statement how long it takes: 7-10 years. That's what UFO works with, it is what *we* have to work with, whether we like it or not.

However, building the structure and fitting it out is possible within 6-7 years.

The UK Aachen, one of the largest hospitals in Europe, was built in slightly over 10 years. It's a "few" (<--- heavy irony here!) factors larger than SHADO HQ with its 130000 aquare meters (equals 1399320 square feet!), faced similar excavations (as it was built into a rise) and went from zero (1970) to fully functional (1982) in just slightly more than a decade. Like SHADO it achieved a basic functionality earlier, in 1978, and again as with SHADO basic shell-state was achieved after much less, namely 3 years (1973).

So - the UFO writers really do not stretch reality there at all. If a several factors larger building like the UKA can be built in 12 years, it is not illogical to assume - as they did - that the HQ might be built in 6-7 years.

And as it is easy to see, I was and am using very realistic markers for how long each milestone takes. Ask a seasoned architect of large, non-prefab buildings, (s)he will confirm. Let me just add, I definitely know what I talk about here and can be absolutely positive about this timing of a large building project.

As to the hardware regarding machinery, SID and Co. - Marc, I hate to break the news, but it is a science fiction series! ;-)

Seriously again, though, had NASA had the financial means and the basic need to achieve, as SHADO was portrayed as having, then they would have come up with the space shuttles earlier (the plans for those were available MUCH earlier), and space stations would have existed earlier as well. Building a base on the moon as shown would have been technically possible rather early on as well.

That is what is - at least in my book - one of the major distinctions of SHADO, it shows feasible technology.

>As far as we know, that apartment meeting could have taken place in
>1972, and from 1972 - 1980 they spent building Moonbase, SID,
>Skydiver, the Lunar Carrier/Module, the Mobiles, the Moon Mobiles,
>plus training lots more recruits.

No. The meeting takes place after the underground complex of HQ is finished and operational. The building of this takes at least 6-7 years, that's a definite amount of time.

>We hear that it takes 6 months of training for the initial
>batch of recruits (and some of this overlaps with SHADO HQ
>construction). The meeting in Nina's apartment is after
>that 6 months of training. When Straker says "the worst
>is over", he is referring to what the recruits must
>go through, not that SHADO is almost up and running.

No. See above, you need to link this scene with the one which comes before and announces it right there. The sequence of both is not vague at all.

>Mary gets pregnant, but when she falls down the stairs,
>she does not appear to be 9 months pregnant.

Mary already looks  extremely pregnant when she talks with her mother. The baby shown to us is no premature baby either,  baby John looks fully baked to me (and is NOT on any sort of life support, nor in any special room or given any preemy treatment, yes that existed in 1980 and even already 1969). So, it may be a few days too early, but certainly neither weeks nor months.

As to what Bentley explains away with his invention of a 12 year long career of Ford (which wouldn't match even then the timeline), it is his faulty assumption that the break-up of Straker's marriage occurs over a short period of time. That forces him to twist the rest.

If they married in December 1970 it is absolutely impossible that Mary gives birth 1972. That means that construction indeed most likely took until winter 1976/1977 and she has the baby AFTER  the underground complex is finished, fitted and ready to be used.

Also, it would make little sense for Ford to make a mistake AND be so nervous as a veritable veteran of SHADO. The  "two years and some" quote however makes his behaviour acceptable within the norm. As to Straker being out of character there, I dunno. I do not see him as that cocksure and hard-ass as some have him here. He showed insecurity about himself and his role repeatedly. Lightcudder did a solid essay on that, and I agree with what she writes. This could account for his over-compensation with Ford, and he did that also with Foster at least twice.

So, as James said earlier in this discussion, everyone can make mistakes. That means Chris Bentley as well. Shortening the marriage was one. As to his biographies of the various characters, some are likely, some are not likely, some work with established canon facts, some don't and some go against them. Those bios are indeed conjecture and ought to be treated as such.

All that is not belittling any of his work or undebatable dedication to UFO and Fanderson and doesn't detract from his book's value at all.

To cut all this short - the wiki was set up to try to help solve some of these queries that cause so many problems. We would really appreciate support from UFO fans who want to help develop a free  resource that  is available to everyone.

Cheers

An

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