Posted by Deborah Rorabaugh-2 on
URL: https://www.shado-forum.com/New-in-the-SHADO-Library-tp3037403p3067553.html

Well, since I've actually seen bridges, sky-scrapers, and huge multi-story
parking garages go up in less that 12 months (have you seen the foundation
of a sky-scraper or a multi-story parking garage with a multi-acre
footprint? You could hide SHADO HQ in the foundation/basement of most of
them with parking spaces to boot.) So the insistence that HQ took 5+ years
is not supported by reality.

The hold-up in most building projects is permitting and inspection - SHADO
didn't need to worry about permitting and inspections would have been by
military inspectors and engineers who would have been working on SHADO's
timetable, not showing up at their whim. So everything could go ahead at max
speed. Many many times faster than a civilian project of similar size.

So less than 12 months from ground breaking to usable shell with ventilation
and utility lighting is easily possible.

And putting the completion of HQ and the first batch of recruits to 1977 or
thereabouts implies (if not outright states) that most of building of the
sky-diver fleet, Moonbase and its ancillary support on Earth , launching of
SID, training of all the necessary crews for those posts, all took place
between 1977 and 1980.  

If it actually took 6-7 years to build HQ, how long did it take to build
Moonbase and the Sky-divers and their bases? Would those have been built
before HQ was finished or would they have been delayed until SHADO had
adequate secure communications and a secure place to coordinate the building
from?

And since Freeman seemed to be in charge of the building, recruitment, and
training (at least he's the one reporting to Straker about them) what was
Straker doing while HQ was being built for six or so years?

 

And as Marc pointed out in another post - The flashback in CCAOK clearly
covers a fairly short span of time - a few years at the outside.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of An
Delendir
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 2:53 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] UFO Bloopers

 

 

Hi Marc,


> And what timeline is that exactly?

A rough outlay of the timeline can be found here:

http://edstraker.net/en/june2011/articles/273/Mary%27s-Place-or-Who-is-to-Bl
ame.htm

However, a more anal, err, precise timeline will be established on the wiki.

> Perhaps I need to rewatch CONFETTI CHECK A-OK again, but I
> don't recall any exact dates for when thingstook place.

1. The meeting takes place in the spring that SHADO is supposed to start
basic functionality.

Qualifier: Discussion between Ed and Alec in the winter following Mary's
announcement that she is pregnant and prior to the meeting

Alec: Well, the control complex is complete, fully operational. All we need
now are the technicians.
Ed: How is the first batch of recruits making out?
Alec: Security checks, aptitude tests, six-month training, more tests. It's
a tough schedule. The original 50 have been whittled down to eight.
Ed: Eight?
Alec: Yes. The second batch seem to be doing better,
Ed: When do we expect the first group to finish their training?
Alec: A few months. It'll be spring. A good time to start.
Ed: Spring. My son will be born in the spring.
Alec: Your son? How do y...

Alec clearly says that HQ is completed at that point (this takes at least
6-7 years! Makes this discussion early winter 1976 or 1977). And he also
says that the HQ operatives will be ready in spring. Ed drives back to Mary
just prior to her birthing AFTER the meeting, so that is the correct spring
we see there and not an earlier one.

2. It takes place when Straker's son is born (see above)

3. It is the end of Straker's long, main amount of work of setting
everything up (hinted at to Mary, shown by his relief and guilty bouquet of
flowers as he drives home)

4. The meeting itself clarifies what it is about.

Ed: Well, it's been a long hard slog, but we're ready. We're ready.I know
how hard you've all worked, I think we can assume the worst is over. And I
want to thank you all.

The date is both hinted at in the UNO-meeting ("7 to 10 years"), and
pinpointed by a) the milestones coming before it, b) Identified (dated to
August 24th 1980) and actually also by c) Ford's comment about when he
joined SHADO. Another defining date is John's death, which takes place well
after Identified, but not much later than 1984, and he doesn't look or
behave much younger than 7 y/o.

So...

The meeting takes place either spring 1976 or spring 1977. Given that
Lightcudder just dated the modern content of Identified for me to August
24th 1980 (Lake is reading the newspaper of that date), I by now tend to
place that meeting spring 1977, with Ford being vague in his months in his
quote.

>It seems to me that the meeting in Nina Barry's apartment
>could have occurred anywhere between 1971 - 1979.

No, Marc. The events in CCAOK are linear, a row of events one after the
other. Why just one event would happen outside this row, particularly the
one which happens to be most convenient for an argument against what is such
a clear dating of events, you'd need to sell me far better than that. Just
to be contrary is not sufficient ;-).

As you can see above, the meeting took place AFTER the SHADO headquarters
were built, AFTER the recruits were tested and trained. Alec says HQ will be
coming operative then.

Also, the flashback that we see isn't in any way arthousey or artsy (as in
what is currently done with this movie gimmick). It's basic straight
oldfashioned filmmaking: the showing of milestone events down a timeline,
showing a development between a point A (marriage) and point B (birth of
son), triggered by the witnessing of a father's joy at SHADO HQ.

Additionally we get other flashbacks in UFO and they happen to all have been
linear and pretty much in order of time they take place.

> And no matter what year you choose, it would NOT be believable,
> because there is no way they could have built all of that SHADO
> hardware in 10 years. A lot of that technology is unachievable,
> even today. :-)

We get a clear statement how long it takes: 7-10 years. That's what UFO
works with, it is what *we* have to work with, whether we like it or not.

However, building the structure and fitting it out is possible within 6-7
years.

The UK Aachen, one of the largest hospitals in Europe, was built in slightly
over 10 years. It's a "few" (<--- heavy irony here!) factors larger than
SHADO HQ with its 130000 aquare meters (equals 1399320 square feet!), faced
similar excavations (as it was built into a rise) and went from zero (1970)
to fully functional (1982) in just slightly more than a decade. Like SHADO
it achieved a basic functionality earlier, in 1978, and again as with SHADO
basic shell-state was achieved after much less, namely 3 years (1973).

So - the UFO writers really do not stretch reality there at all. If a
several factors larger building like the UKA can be built in 12 years, it is
not illogical to assume - as they did - that the HQ might be built in 6-7
years.

And as it is easy to see, I was and am using very realistic markers for how
long each milestone takes. Ask a seasoned architect of large, non-prefab
buildings, (s)he will confirm. Let me just add, I definitely know what I
talk about here and can be absolutely positive about this timing of a large
building project.

As to the hardware regarding machinery, SID and Co. - Marc, I hate to break
the news, but it is a science fiction series! ;-)

Seriously again, though, had NASA had the financial means and the basic need
to achieve, as SHADO was portrayed as having, then they would have come up
with the space shuttles earlier (the plans for those were available MUCH
earlier), and space stations would have existed earlier as well. Building a
base on the moon as shown would have been technically possible rather early
on as well.

That is what is - at least in my book - one of the major distinctions of
SHADO, it shows feasible technology.

>As far as we know, that apartment meeting could have taken place in
>1972, and from 1972 - 1980 they spent building Moonbase, SID,
>Skydiver, the Lunar Carrier/Module, the Mobiles, the Moon Mobiles,
>plus training lots more recruits.

No. The meeting takes place after the underground complex of HQ is finished
and operational. The building of this takes at least 6-7 years, that's a
definite amount of time.

>We hear that it takes 6 months of training for the initial
>batch of recruits (and some of this overlaps with SHADO HQ
>construction). The meeting in Nina's apartment is after
>that 6 months of training. When Straker says "the worst
>is over", he is referring to what the recruits must
>go through, not that SHADO is almost up and running.

No. See above, you need to link this scene with the one which comes before
and announces it right there. The sequence of both is not vague at all.

>Mary gets pregnant, but when she falls down the stairs,
>she does not appear to be 9 months pregnant.

Mary already looks extremely pregnant when she talks with her mother. The
baby shown to us is no premature baby either, baby John looks fully baked to
me (and is NOT on any sort of life support, nor in any special room or given
any preemy treatment, yes that existed in 1980 and even already 1969). So,
it may be a few days too early, but certainly neither weeks nor months.

As to what Bentley explains away with his invention of a 12 year long career
of Ford (which wouldn't match even then the timeline), it is his faulty
assumption that the break-up of Straker's marriage occurs over a short
period of time. That forces him to twist the rest.

If they married in December 1970 it is absolutely impossible that Mary gives
birth 1972. That means that construction indeed most likely took until
winter 1976/1977 and she has the baby AFTER the underground complex is
finished, fitted and ready to be used.

Also, it would make little sense for Ford to make a mistake AND be so
nervous as a veritable veteran of SHADO. The "two years and some" quote
however makes his behaviour acceptable within the norm. As to Straker being
out of character there, I dunno. I do not see him as that cocksure and
hard-ass as some have him here. He showed insecurity about himself and his
role repeatedly. Lightcudder did a solid essay on that, and I agree with
what she writes. This could account for his over-compensation with Ford, and
he did that also with Foster at least twice.

So, as James said earlier in this discussion, everyone can make mistakes.
That means Chris Bentley as well. Shortening the marriage was one. As to his
biographies of the various characters, some are likely, some are not likely,
some work with established canon facts, some don't and some go against them.
Those bios are indeed conjecture and ought to be treated as such.

All that is not belittling any of his work or undebatable dedication to UFO
and Fanderson and doesn't detract from his book's value at all.

To cut all this short - the wiki was set up to try to help solve some of
these queries that cause so many problems. We would really appreciate
support from UFO fans who want to help develop a free resource that is
available to everyone.

Cheers

An

http://edstraker.net (The Ed Straker Herald)
http://ufopedia.edstraker.com (UFOpedia)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]