Alec Freeman..Straker and Q.

<< Re: Re: Alec Freeman...

<< Alec's charm comes definitely more from George's considerable personality shining through than
looks, but I've never been about looks as far as men go - they have to give me something else to
latch onto than looks - >>

That's the same with me Pam. Looks help but... If that's all that is going for the
actor/actoress.. Then I don't and can't connect to him or her.

<< and looks fade as we age too - >>

For most..No kidding..

<< charm lasts forever! George also has a lovely smile and nice teeth! >>

Alec had that kind of charm that is sorely missed these days. Sure there are still some around who
still have it.. I which NCIS so David McCallum is always near the edge of my mind. But there asre
others. Not many, but they are out there.

<< On CSI, George Eads plays Nick Stokes - >>

Right thanks.. You hear his name spoken all the time.

<< I too prefer the actor who plays the black CSI (momentary brain fart prevents my mentioning the
character's name....). >>

Don't feel bad.. I was reading this when cis was on spike ther other night.. And damn.. In under 2
hrs. I could not grab his name.. They seem to say it less then the rest of the cast. Drats..

<< Grissom has been compared to Spock on the original Trek for his lack of emotion and the fact
one of his co-CSIs is in love with him - unrequited of course. >>

That's Cathryn i think.. I think he is sweet on her too. But just won't show it.. MEN! lol..:}

<< Do you recall the actor from Falcon Crest >>

Know it...never watched it..

<< David Selby? >>

Do I... QUENTIN COLLINS.. I adore Q..:} david is OK too..lololol.
I am a longggggggggggggggggg time DS fan. have been from day 1.

<< I think Selby was alot like G. Sewell in that he wasn't classically handsome by H'wood
standards >>

NOT?? Well he was adored by women the world over when he was playing Q.. And from the pics i've
seen from the last DS fest.. The man still has looks that could kill.

<< but he exuded charm and was the kind of guy you'd like to have dinner with (or maybe more????)
>>

I know that from all the fans on the huge number of DS groups I am on.. {under a diff. email
mname.}

<< Yes, it's possible Straker should blame himself for the loss of his family - most esp his son -
but I doubt if he sees it that way - I'm sure he chalks that loss up to the aliens as well. >>

The man is driven that is for damn sure.. And hard headed as hell too. The men does feel, very
deeply. But covered himself in a concrete wall, and didn't not want others to see he felt. Alex
and Lake could see through the wall. Others too I think.

<< Ciao for now - Pam >>

Hugs

<< If I'm not mistaken, David Selby was also Quentin Collins on "Dark Shadows" before ('way
before!) Falcon Crest. >>

Wayy before FC Mark.. He will be Q to must of his fans forever.

BTW.. I was only 5 when the show started. I'm turning 44 11-2..
I loved Q and the others on the show for other reasons then their cuteness..

April..
{Lady Cathryn Collins in the DS universe.}





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Hiya April! And all UFO fans !

I had quite forgotten David McCallum - former UNCLE agent and now ME on NCIS
(another show I'm currently addicted to....along with CSI, Law & Order,
Crossing Jordan - I actually did a three way cross fan fic of UFO, L & O and
X-Files - it's on the SHADO Library). Prime example of an actor whose charm
continues no matter how old he is.

I understand the character madly in love with Grissom (a la Spock and Nurse
Chapel) is Sarah Sidle, not Catherine, altho I think Grissom finds Catherine
more appealing because she's STRONG and saved his ass more than once!

David selby, like G. Sewell, has an engaging personality, a 2000 candlepower
smile, and more charm than the law should allow. I LOVED DS of course - who
didn't?

I always felt Alec Freeman was Straker's more humanistic conscience - kind
of a Bones McCoy to Captain Kirk thing. Except Straker is far more intense
and much more nasty than Kirk ever thought of being. Kirk is a classic hero,
Straker is almost the anti-hero because everything he touches in his
anti-alien zeal, turns to dust in the wind.

Pam

Hiya Pam..

<< Hiya April! And all UFO fans!

I had quite forgotten David McCallum >>

<GASP>

<< - former UNCLE agent and now ME on NCIS >>

The man does get around don't he..:}

<< (another show I'm currently addicted to....>>

You two huh.. Welcome to the club.. I adore it.

<< along with CSI, >>

Just started watching the reruns on spike. Like it.

<< Law & Order, Crossing Jordan - I actually did a three way cross fan fic of UFO, L & O and
X-Files - it's on the SHADO Library). >>

Impressive..

<< Prime example of an actor whose charm continues no matter how old he is. >>

O'lordy yes..

<< I understand the character madly in love with Grissom (a la Spock and Nurse Chapel) is Sarah
Sidle, not Catherine, altho I think Grissom finds Catherine more appealing because she's STRONG
and saved his ass more than once! >>

Hey like i said, I have only as of 2-3 weeks ago started watching.. But I think it was the blonde
gal who can recreate faces of the dead old Gris has the hots for.

<< David selby, like G. Sewell, has an engaging personality, a 2000 candlepower smile, and more
charm than the law should allow. I LOVED DS of course - who didn't? >>

You'd be amazed at how huge the DS fandom community is. Under my wolfsmage1 id, I am on somewhere
around 15 groups. 2 of which are rpgs. Most of my characters are original characters that are part
DS and part P:TL. {Polterguies: The Lrgacy}

I write mainly multi-crossover fics.

<< I always felt Alec Freeman was Straker's more humanistic conscience - kind
of a Bones McCoy to Captain Kirk thing. >>

Never thought of it like that.. But yes, I can see the simularity.

<< Except Straker is far more intense and much more nasty than Kirk ever thought of being. >>

No freaking kidding.. Could you imagine Ed and Jim in the same room both trying to be in command?
But I thing Jong Koenig could out yell them... Not picturing all three in that room.

<< Kirk is a classic hero, >>

OAh yes... Fight the baddie. Kiss the girl.. That go back to the Lady..

<< Straker is almost the anti-hero >>

Not quite Avon-ish enough.. :}:}. But your right..

<< because everything he touches in his anti-alien zeal, turns to dust in the wind. Pam >>

Yep, the man never give an inch..

April



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Hi to April and the UFO gang!

I've found some interesting cross over fiction both on the SHADO Library and
at other sites (actually found a Man from UNCLE - Hogan's Heroes cross over
once!!!!). One of the things I LOVE about doing UFO fan fic is with only 26
eps, there is very little canon (unlike Trek and all its incarnations) and
this gives writers an enormous sandbox in which to play with ideas,
characters, scenarios, etc.

Alec Freeman is not married (or at least we have no real knowledge that he
was ever married) but he seems to have more compassion for his fellow man
than Straker does. I do liken him to McCoy in Trek because they both
function from the same level of humanity.

If I had my druthers, I'd rather serve under the command of James T. Kirk
than Edward Straker, even if I had to wear a red shirt, ha ha! Straker is
too hard ass, with little or no idea of what happens to those under his
command. Look at the eps in which Foster is put on trial for his life -
Straker wants to wash his hands of the whole thing - if that was Kirk, he'd
be finding a way to prove Foster innocent because they were best buds. Yeah,
Kirk is the better commander and the all round nicer dude, for sure. I don't
even see John Koenig in the same class as Kirk.

Straker is the perfect anti-hero - along with Dirty Harry and just about
every role John Wayne ever undertook. I'm not saying the anti-hero is a bad
guy - I'm just saying he is meant to be alone in every way - no buddies or
friends to help him make decisions. Kirk is a classic hero because he not
only makes BIG decisions (which Straker does too) BUUUUT, he has Spock and
McCoy to help him make that decision, suspended between the logic of the
facts and the human aspects of the case. Yes, Kirk is the final arbiter, but
he thinks things through in a way that is definitely different from Straker.
Occasionally Freeman tries to make more human suggestions to Straker, and
while Straker may listen to them at times, he often acts independently of
Freeman's advice. It is only in Confetti Check A-OK that he relents and
gives the new father some leave time.

Pam

Well my first day back online after three weeks without a computer and I am
about to put my foot or in this case both feet in it.

Pam while I am a great fan of the original Star Trek and James T. Kirk I
would not want him running SHADO. The very points you make about him are the
things I think are both great about the original Trek and what would not work on
UFO.

One of the things that attracted me to UFO was that it took a more realistic
approach to Sci-Fi. As you said the Kirk would be out looking for who framed
Foster because they were friends. Well Straker and Freeman went looking for
the one who had but because they needed to know who had broken security.

The more realistic approach of UFO was that unlike Star Trek you did not have
the heroes getting in trouble and then when one of them was in a really bad
spot violate everything in military rules and regulations by having Straker
say" I am the Commander and you are just a colonel Paul and you are my friend so
I'm going to knock you out and take your place and risk my life and the whole
of SHADO and Earth to save you from the aliens. Come on how many time did
they use some varation of that plot in the original Star Trek?

The sad thing about war is that people die, often your friends. In the
military you can't run round knocking out your junior or superior officers to take
their place. Well you could but they tend to courtmartial you for it. And
the hardest job is the being the man at the top. You have to watch everyone and
see what fate hands them and treat it as if they were no more than just piece
on a chess board. That is the thing steeling ones heart that the most of us
cannot do. It is also what would leave us wanting as the Commander of
SHADO.

When I first watch UFO 32 years ago after seeing the first 3 or 4 episodes I
thought Straker to be a real unlikeable (Censored). However after seeing the
whole series I knew he had a reason for it. Look at the history of great
military commanders, Alexander the Great, Hannibal,Caesar, Napolean, Patton.
They were good at their job but not exactly the person whom you might want to be
friends with. I am sure that they and Straker have that softer side but in a
war you don't often get to see that.


I now like Straker
but I don't know if we could ever be friends but if he told me to carry out an
order I would. That what makes a great military leader not being the best
friend to all your troops but being respected by them.

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam:

I think that the main reason is that they have to do different jobs...
Kirk is an explorer, his mission is to find new life forms and try to make contact, and also is ruled by the Federation rules about the relationships with the known races...

Straker is the head of an undercover organization, he must fight his war and keep the secret of this war, a hard task...

Kirk enemies are unknown most of the times, because they are new beings, but he must try to make contact with them and have peace and understanding...

Straker enemies are also unknown, but he must defend Earth, because this enemy have only the interest of save himself at any cost, there's no way of understanding!

Kirk's work is known and also appreciated, he became (even if he don't likethat) a legend for all the starfleet personnel, and I think for the other people in 23rd century

Straker work is unknown for anybody outside SHADO, and he have to fight with Henderson to keep his organisation working, fight for the funds; and nobody will know about his sacrifices or triumphs...

Yes, Kirk have Spock and Mc Coy to advise him...

But Straker must do all alone, even he takes Freeman or Foster advises, because is his head that will fall down if something goes wrong, not to mention SHADO's future in danger and of course, the end of mankind!

Kirk is a hero

Straker too, with some dark points, because his work is more dirty and unpopular than Kirk's...

Well, I hope not bore you with my reflections
Osvaldo

I thought both you lads made some very good points about the differences in
what Kirk did and what Straker did in their respective jobs. I esp liked the
comments about SHADO mirroring real military situations and the unsung
heroes, and the commander who has to make all the hard decisions alone and
with nobody to really advise him. I think you guys have really described
Straker's position entirely - it's quite true that a security leak is
something that has to be stopped up - even if that leak could be a friend,
etc. I'm just saying Kirk is able to make more human value judgements based
on his capacity to size people up and know whether they could be guilty of
such a thing or not. I think Alec Freeman acts quite differently in the
matter of Foster's supposed guilt in Court Martial and he makes his distaste
for Jackson clear when he states loudly that he makes it point never touch
anything slimy when he refuses to shake hands with him.

Pam

Thank you Pam for that concise and articulate message. I read a letter about UFO and it just said Kirk is better than Straker. I was going to write a scathing letter about them because comparing them is like apple and oranges. You put in your letter exactly what I was thinking. The other letter was from a Star Trek fan so I doubt if you saw it. Is it ok to forward your letter to my friend. bsl
[hidden email] wrote:Pam:

I think that the main reason is that they have to do different jobs...
Kirk is an explorer, his mission is to find new life forms and try to make contact, and also is ruled by the Federation rules about the relationships with the known races...

Straker is the head of an undercover organization, he must fight his war and keep the secret of this war, a hard task...

Kirk enemies are unknown most of the times, because they are new beings, but he must try to make contact with them and have peace and understanding...

Straker enemies are also unknown, but he must defend Earth, because this enemy have only the interest of save himself at any cost, there's no way of understanding!

Kirk's work is known and also appreciated, he became (even if he don't like that) a legend for all the starfleet personnel, and I think for the other people in 23rd century

Straker work is unknown for anybody outside SHADO, and he have to fight with Henderson to keep his organisation working, fight for the funds; and nobody will know about his sacrifices or triumphs...

Yes, Kirk have Spock and Mc Coy to advise him...

But Straker must do all alone, even he takes Freeman or Foster advises, because is his head that will fall down if something goes wrong, not to mention SHADO's future in danger and of course, the end of mankind!

Kirk is a hero

Straker too, with some dark points, because his work is more dirty and unpopular than Kirk's...

Well, I hope not bore you with my reflections
Osvaldo




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Well, my friend, yes, Iam a Star Trek fan, but also a UFO fan, and as a proffesional cartoonist I know a little about developement of characters, so I try to give you all my point of view of the fascinating characters of Straker and also Kirk...
They're both in different worlds and different premises of their respectivejobs, so I try to make clear the differences and similarities, I think that's very easy and ufair to say "Straker is better than Kirk" or something like that, too superficial...
Anyway, I think our reflections could serve to give us another way to look our favorite heroes...
Thanks
Osvaldo

I think the discussion thread on Straker and Kirk has been very interesting
and definitely made me think! While I think I would prefer to work under
Kirk's command, rather than Straker's, the chain of command of which they
are part respectively is VERY different - Kevin and others have really
pointed this out with good examples.

Kirk tends to bend the rules for his own reasons (how many times does he
flout the Prime Directive?) - I have to admit I like a risk taker and I like
to feel Kirk makes value judgements about the situations in which he does go
against the PD. He also has more room to maneouver than Straker does.
StarFleet is a very public organization as opposed to a secretive one like
SHADO. Kirk's foes (i.e. Klingons, Romulans, Khan Noonian Singh, et al) are
also waaay out there and evyrone knows about them.

SHADO's very existence has to remain a secret and anything that happens
pertaining to alien incursions on earth have to be kept quiet, covered up,
etc. That is why I introduced an MIB type branch into my post 1980's UFO fan
fic stories (I called it the Omega Corporation, based it in NYC and made
Foster the head of it) - they're the scientific/forensic - troubleshooting
arm - a sister organ of SHADO which often takes on the law, the medical
services, the conventional military or whomever else may get in their way of
covering up or cleaning up.

I don't think the UFO series itself said alot about about MIB type
operations, altho something is mentioned in Confetti Check when Straker asks
Alec if it would be ok to tell Mary about SHADO and Alec no-no's it on the
basis that their security guys would kill her as a risk.

Interestingly enough, the Next Gen and DS9 series of Trek had at least one
eps which discussed a secret branch of StarFleet which operated below the
radar and above the law - I forget what it was called.

I still feel Straker is a loner, and possibly self-isolated because of his
difficult personal life as well as his professional responsibilities with
SHADO. He is 'married' to the organization. Kirk may have loved the
Enterprise, but Straker's feelings about SHADO are a deeper, more intense
kind of thing - perhaps because he himself was instrumental in creating
SHADO in every way - it is his 'child'.

Pam

Re Alec not liking Jackson - he seems to tolerate his presence in other episodes, for example, in Kill Straker! when Straker walks into his office and they're both there to tell him that Foster is finished.

MCCAUG <[hidden email]> wrote:I think Alec Freeman acts quite differently in the
matter of Foster's supposed guilt in Court Martial and he makes his distaste
for Jackson clear when he states loudly that he makes it point never touch
anything slimy when he refuses to shake hands with him.

Pam



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Forgive me for being off-topic, but speaking of Jackson, I've always found his change of vocation during the series to be somewhat amusing/puzzling. First he's a "spy"/procecutor/psychiatrist, then becomes a medical doctor. Quite an ambitious and multi-talented guy!

Jeff

P.S. My first post. It's nice to be here!

MICK DICKENS <[hidden email]> wrote:

Re Alec not liking Jackson - he seems to tolerate his presence in other episodes, for example, in Kill Straker! when Straker walks into his office and they're both there to tell him that Foster is finished.

MCCAUG wrote:I think Alec Freeman acts quite differently in the
matter of Foster's supposed guilt in Court Martial and he makes his distaste
for Jackson clear when he states loudly that he makes it point never touch
anything slimy when he refuses to shake hands with him.

Pam



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iam glad that our little discussion maked you think, Pam...
Yes, in a certain way SHADO is more close to a MIB organization, and that Omega Corporation sounds interesting.
Oh, about the secret branch in DS9 is called the Directory 8, I think this is the right name in english, as I just viewed the chapters dubbed to spanish
And thanks for make think too!
Osvaldo

Welcome Jeff!

Well it is possible that Jackson was a trained doctor that became a spy. :)

Anthony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Nelson" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Straker vs Kirk


>
>
> Forgive me for being off-topic, but speaking of Jackson, I've always found
his change of vocation during the series to be somewhat amusing/puzzling.
First he's a "spy"/procecutor/psychiatrist, then becomes a medical doctor.
Quite an ambitious and multi-talented guy!
>
> Jeff
>
> P.S. My first post. It's nice to be here!

Or a spy who choosed a better remunerated proffesion: doctor! :)
Osvaldo

Anthony,

Thanks for the welcome.
Yes, it is entirely possible Jackson was a doctor that became a spy. Merely following in the footsteps of his long lost sister Casseopeia(sp?) from Battlestar Galactica, a nurse that became a hooker! ; )

Jeff

"Anthony D." <[hidden email]> wrote:

Welcome Jeff!

Well it is possible that Jackson was a trained doctor that became a spy. :)

Anthony


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually Cassie was a hooker who became a nurse out of necessity for the rag tag fleet. the Dr. from Shado may have been a Dr. first who found an alien and did his own autopsy. He told the government and they recommended him for SHADO. Just my opinon, never stated on series or books. bsl

Jeffrey Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Anthony,

Thanks for the welcome.
Yes, it is entirely possible Jackson was a doctor that became a spy. Merely following in the footsteps of his long lost sister Casseopeia(sp?) from Battlestar Galactica, a nurse that became a hooker! ; )

Jeff

"Anthony D." wrote:

Welcome Jeff!

Well it is possible that Jackson was a trained doctor that became a spy. :)

Anthony


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually,

Cassie was a hooker who became a nurse because the network censors of the day said they couldn't have a hooker in a show in an early time-slot that kids might watch. My original statement was an apparently failed attempt at humor. : )
But your hypothesis about Jackson's origins certainly sounds plausable enough...

legg bryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Actually Cassie was a hooker who became a nurse out of necessity for the rag tag fleet. the Dr. from Shado may have been a Dr. first who found an alien and did his own autopsy. He told the government and they recommended him for SHADO. Just my opinon, never stated on series or books. bsl

Jeffrey Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Anthony,

Thanks for the welcome.
Yes, it is entirely possible Jackson was a doctor that became a spy. Merely following in the footsteps of his long lost sister Casseopeia(sp?) from Battlestar Galactica, a nurse that became a hooker! ; )

Jeff

"Anthony D." wrote:

Welcome Jeff!

Well it is possible that Jackson was a trained doctor that became a spy. :)

Anthony







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. She was called a socialator(sp) and dressed like a hooker. Then two episodes later she was a nurse? I always wondered how and why they changed her. Dr. Jackson on the other hand had such a distinctive voice and manner that Gerry Anderson wanted him to get bigger parts. When Freeman called him slimy and when Straker caught Henderson on tape calling himself an idiot was two of my favorite scenes involving Dr Jackson. scott

Jeffrey Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Actually,

Cassie was a hooker who became a nurse because the network censors of the day said they couldn't have a hooker in a show in an early time-slot that kids might watch. My original statement was an apparently failed attempt at humor. : )
But your hypothesis about Jackson's origins certainly sounds plausable enough...

legg bryan wrote:

Actually Cassie was a hooker who became a nurse out of necessity for the rag tag fleet. the Dr. from Shado may have been a Dr. first who found an alien and did his own autopsy. He told the government and they recommended him for SHADO. Just my opinon, never stated on series or books. bsl

Jeffrey Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Anthony,

Thanks for the welcome.
Yes, it is entirely possible Jackson was a doctor that became a spy. Merely following in the footsteps of his long lost sister Casseopeia(sp?) from Battlestar Galactica, a nurse that became a hooker! ; )

Jeff

"Anthony D." wrote:

Welcome Jeff!

Well it is possible that Jackson was a trained doctor that became a spy. :)

Anthony







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I remember correctly, Glen Larson in retrospect finds the stink the censors made about the "socialator" part a bit of overkill considering what is allowed on TV these days.

I had no idea that was Gerry Anderson's rationale for changing Jackson's role in UFO. But I'm glad he did. Vladek Shebal is one of my favorite actors in the show, although the name of "Doug Jackson" doesn't seem particularly fitting of a man with that great accent!
Agreed that the "slimy" and "cretinous lout" scenes are two of the best. I especially get a kick out of Jackson's reaction when Straker says "I like it" and tosses the recorder/pen to Henderson. Maybe Jackson found himself being "shown the door" by Henderson after his reaction, hence the change of careers. :)

I realize that I am probably rehashing topics that have been discussed here time and time again over the years. But I'm hoping you folks will cut me some slack, being the new guy here.

Jeff