Confetti Check A-OK.... Little late..sorry.

<< Did you ever think what would have happened if he HAD told her? He more than likely would have
been injected with the amnesia drug and kissed his career goodbye. >>

Man am I behind. Ok.. Now I know what you were all talking about over on Mice.

Sorry. MC. I think Mary had a need to know what Ed's real job was. Even in this sorry real world
of ours, the wives and hubbies who's mates are in the CIA, NSA, FBI, CID and the Secret Serves4.
Act.. know what they do. Maybe not the day to day proticulars. But still they know... Mary had a
right to know that Ed was head of SHADO. She didn't need to know everything sure. I believe that
if she had known, then she could have understood better why he wasn't there.

You said higher up in this digest that if you married a cop and so on you world know aka
understand the real job he would be doing. Mary was told Ed was a movie studio exct. {I think} So
what did she think he realing did? Not what he was really doing that is for sure. She was lied to
and left hurt.

I think what he did was just plane wrong. If he wasn't going to do the correct and honorable thing
to do, he should have just not married her or devorced her early on.

<< Well, the amnesia drug has an effective span of 24 hrs or so, if I remember correctly, so they
wouldn't have done that. In any event, it would have been more than his career that he would have
kissed goodbye; he would have faced serious discipline involving a long custodial sentence for a
breach of discipline like that, or quite possibly, a fatal accident would have been arranged for
him. Mary as well, no doubt. James >>

If Henderson and who ever is up there in the control seat with him would really stoop that low.
Then the aliens should win.

Gads James. That is a seriously dark view you have there.
Yikes.
April <reaching to turn the lights back on>





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here, here! actually, now that someone brought it up.
a workplace friend of mine has a spouse in MI. and
that's all she knows. there is even an agreement the
spouse and family have to sign to not ask questions.
and there is a full security check run on everyone you
ever met ... or so it seems. So, really, if Mary
didn't measure up, something should have been done
sooner. If she did, she should have been told. Again,
smacks of writers not doing their homework. You could
still have had Mary decide it wasn't working, but not
because her "studio head" hubby was working
waaaaaaaaaaaay too long hours.
>
> I think what he did was just plane wrong. If he
> wasn't going to do the correct and honorable thing
> to do, he should have just not married her or
> devorced her early on.

suspect Ed wanted to do the honorable thing. there are
indications he knew that what they were doing was
stupid, but he also had his orders; orders he didn't
have when they met and fell for each other. Although,
technically he was already classified as MI, so she
really should have had a clue. Mary the Clueless,
sounds medieval ....... *laughter*
>
> If Henderson and who ever is up there in the control
> seat with him would really stoop that low.
> Then the aliens should win.

I don't think it would be a case of "stooping that
low" as of a panic, knee jerk reaction to the
situation. the clear cut idea behind the secrecy was
that if the world at large found out that there were
aliens and what they were doing, there would be wide
scale panic and disruption .... the religious right
alone could use this for all sorts of nonsense that
would be detrimental both to the world economy and to
SHADO itself. I agree with you, that the writers
should have done a better job and a more reasonable
job with this character, but I have to agree with
James *dragon wavicles at James* that in the SHADO
universe, Gen. Henderson and the powers that be were
truly that unreasonable.

as to the 24 hour thing on the amnesia drug, i
remember that being a limit in some of the shows, but
wasn't there a member of SHADO who was released from
duty and their memories completely altered so they
didn't remember working for the organization? (Where
is that dratted Dr. Jackson when you need him? *dragon
poking her nose places it shouldn't be and hoping she
doesn't get caught*

> April <reaching to turn the lights back on>
>
eeeek! lights! ow, ow, ow. warn a dragon, wouldja?
*falling over laughing*

*dragon retreating to lurkerdom ....... possibly unsuccessfully*




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CONTENTS DELETED

--- In [hidden email], dragon haven <dragonhavn@y...> wrote:
> *dragon retreating to lurkerdom ....... possibly unsuccessfully*

'lo, dragon! Don't tread on me while you squeeze into this corner.
I had first dibs on the spot, since I've been lurking here for some
time. Good to see you, though.
Yours,
Denise

CONTENTS DELETED

> 'lo, dragon! Don't tread on me while you squeeze into this corner.
> I had first dibs on the spot, since I've been lurking here for some
> time. Good to see you, though.
> Yours,
> Denise

hi.

how's it going? i won't tread on you. actually, it's much more
comfortable lurking back in my cavern with the bar and things ... i
invited some of the SHADO crew, but they were a little .... um ...
disturbed by the denizens. *bright grin*

hmmmmm --- i don't thing i can dragon this on topic .... laters

dragon

--- In [hidden email], "Hemmings, R.K." <rkh@l...> wrote:

>
> Sorry, April, but I agree with James. UFO *was* REALLY
> dark, and all the better for it.

Yes - which is why it was so difficult to position for transmission I
suppose. Not really a childrens' show... but produced by the
puppetmaster. Not really an adult show... because it's scifi which
revolves around shooting down ufos... did the Invaders pre-date ufo?
Can't remember. That was obviously adult but it wasn't focussed on
spaceships, was it?

Sitting here with the informed hindsight from watching tv for the
past 30 years, the premise of ufo could have been better served by
the writers - or better writers? They did develop some interesting,
ambiguous - dark - situations and 'Triangle' was one of
them. 'Closeup', for me, was another. But for whatever reason the
writers didn't / couldn't develop them as well as they might have.
(Or as well as we wish they had!)

UFO with a Straczynski-style arc / vision anyone? :-D

Carly

<< 'lo, dragon! Don't tread on me while you squeeze into this
corner. I had first dibs on the spot, since I've been lurking here
for some time. Good to see you, though. Yours, Denise >>

<< how's it going? i won't tread on you. actually, it's much more
comfortable lurking back in my cavern with the bar and things ... i
invited some of the SHADO crew, but they were a little .... um ...
disturbed by the denizens. *bright grin* hmmmmm --- i don't thing i
can dragon this on topic .... laters, dragon >>

Nothing simpler, Dragon. Just suggest producing a scale, die-cast
model of the cavern so everyone can discuss the colour of the decals,
whether it is pressurised and therefore accessible with / without a
space helmet and hey... an active, even erudite discussion will spring
forth. :D :D

Carly <chortling>

*snerk*

ok, um, Straker and Freeman at the bar uneasily eyeing
the barkeep (Methos), the two vamps at one end of the
bar who really need to get a room (Spike and Tes), the
twin clones of Ares -- one in black, one in white, one
errant Thundergod from MKC, one blue lady from
Farscape, a gold roller rink situated between one
geothermal pool and one chilled pool, the whirling
vortex behind the bar that thows things back when you
throw things into it, ummmmm ..... the door to the
Isle de Muerte and the big "DO NOT OPEN WHEN
FORCEFIELD IS DISENGAGED" sign on the first door on
the left. (number of doors in the cavern is variable
and there is always a party going on) ..... i suspect
this would be a die cast diaorama ........... oh, of
course, there is also Ford trying to look
inconspicuous while discussing esoteric levels of
programming and computer wiring with Lucas W. from SQ
DSV ............ come to think of it, I forgot we
offered him a safe haven at one point ----

no spinners, unless you count the ones hovering over
the NM terrain trying to figure out where the cavern
is .... and since it's in NM, it's -- um --- i don't
think you have to have a helmet, depending on how you
get there and what you're breathing ............

now that i am thoroughly OT, i think i'll get a drink
and see if Alec will relax enough to have one <g>
.....

and I promise I won't do this again ----- immediately.

*waves and slithers back into lurking*

dragon




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What ARE you people talking about? : )

Jeff

dragon haven <[hidden email]> wrote:

ok, um, Straker and Freeman at the bar uneasily eyeing
the barkeep (Methos), the two vamps at one end of the
bar who really need to get a room (Spike and Tes), the
twin clones of Ares -- one in black, one in white, one
errant Thundergod from MKC, one blue lady from
Farscape, a gold roller rink situated between one
geothermal pool and one chilled pool, the whirling
vortex behind the bar that thows things back when you
throw things into it, ummmmm ..... the door to the
Isle de Muerte and the big "DO NOT OPEN WHEN
FORCEFIELD IS DISENGAGED" sign on the first door on
the left. (number of doors in the cavern is variable
and there is always a party going on) ..... i suspect
this would be a die cast diaorama ........... oh, of
course, there is also Ford trying to look
inconspicuous while discussing esoteric levels of
programming and computer wiring with Lucas W. from SQ
DSV ............ come to think of it, I forgot we
offered him a safe haven at one point ----

--- Jeffrey Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> What ARE you people talking about? : )
>
> Jeff
>
*chuckle* not to worry, this was extremely OT and
we're not discussing it any more on list .......

dragon




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------------------------------------------------------

Well, if you believe in a justice system, that would be against the rule
of law. You would be executing people on the basis of a rather quick and
superficial evaluation of a situation....without trial and without a jury.

Like it or not, Straker actually did the right thing there, with the
possible exception that he could have somehow "leaked" tips about the
situation to the local police officials about the possible murder plans.
This could be done thru some convincing anonymous phone calls or other
means....something I'm sure an able intelligence agency like SHADO could
competently arrange.

Dave H.

I wasn't worried, just confused! : )

Jeff

dragon haven <[hidden email]> wrote:


--- Jeffrey Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> What ARE you people talking about? : )
>
> Jeff
>
*chuckle* not to worry, this was extremely OT and
we're not discussing it any more on list .......

dragon




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], "davrecon" <davrecon@n...> wrote:
>
> Well, if you believe in a justice system, that would be against
the rule
> of law. You would be executing people on the basis of a rather
quick and
> superficial evaluation of a situation....without trial and without
a jury.
>
> Like it or not, Straker actually did the right thing there,
with the
> possible exception that he could have somehow "leaked" tips about
the
> situation to the local police officials about the possible murder
plans.
> This could be done thru some convincing anonymous phone calls or
other
> means....something I'm sure an able intelligence agency like SHADO
could
> competently arrange.
>
> Dave H.


Makes sense to me. I find Straker's character to be rather cold at
times in some episodes and in other's he comes across as caring so I
don't know. I like to think his character would have evolved even
more if the series had continued on.

Karen

Dave,
you also forgot to mention the main point which is they had not yet
comitted a crime. That would have SHADO comitting two murders to stop one. Again
as Straker said its not their job. I know the series is set in England but
that does not mean the Police are thereby gradutes of the Agatha Christie
Police Academy and there by unable to solve a murder case without the help of some
little old lady or a Belgium with many little grey cells or some other amateur
sleuth to solve the mystery. Best to let the police handle it and SHADO
stick to fighting the aliens.

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen,

In some episodes, Straker is contrasted with Freeman as being
relatively ruthless. The British do seem to be willing to credit
Americans with being more efficient than them, if nothing else. I
noticed that the only American character on BBC a while back was an
efficiency expert.

The intention appears to have been to draw a parallel between
Straker and Eisenhower, as supreme allied commanders. Straker's
character, if only for the sake of contrast with Freeman's, comes
across as closer to Patton's than Eisenhower's, though. There is a
noticable facial similarity between Straker and Eisenhower.

Pursuing the WWII parallels, there is mention of Soviet cooperation
with SHADO. There is even a Russian, or otherwise Slavic, doctor at
SHADO, though he is given an inexplicably English-sounding surname.

Dean

--- In [hidden email], "raribear" <ar_fan@h...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "davrecon" <davrecon@n...> wrote:
> >
> > Well, if you believe in a justice system, that would be
against
> the rule
> > of law. You would be executing people on the basis of a rather
> quick and
> > superficial evaluation of a situation....without trial and
without
> a jury.
> >
> > Like it or not, Straker actually did the right thing there,
> with the
> > possible exception that he could have somehow "leaked" tips
about
> the
> > situation to the local police officials about the possible
murder
> plans.
> > This could be done thru some convincing anonymous phone calls or
> other
> > means....something I'm sure an able intelligence agency like
SHADO
> could
> > competently arrange.
> >
> > Dave H.
>
>
> Makes sense to me. I find Straker's character to be rather cold at
> times in some episodes and in other's he comes across as caring so
I
> don't know. I like to think his character would have evolved even
> more if the series had continued on.
>
> Karen

interesting idea that .......
>
> Pursuing the WWII parallels, there is mention of
> Soviet cooperation
> with SHADO. There is even a Russian, or otherwise
> Slavic, doctor at
> SHADO, though he is given an inexplicably
> English-sounding surname.
>

i always wondered about dear Dr. Jackson and his vowel
carressing accent ...... I mean, that was a royal
"huh". one hopes that if the series had continued
someone would have tackled the enigmatic dr. jackson
whom no one liked and gen. henderson seems to have
saddled SHADO with.

i could see him being a political refugee or
something, but then why put him in SHADO? of course,
he was apparently the other workaholic on the base,
'cause he seemed to be there as much as our commander
was ... there was also the rather odd combination of
being apparently head psych and security??? or have i
simply been away from the show too long?

dragon



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And there was that strange, unexplained character transformation in Court
Martial, where Jackson seems to be Straker's lifelong enemy. Straker looks
at him with disgust the first time they see each other in that episode.
Was there ever any explanation for that radical change in their
relationship? It's almost as if there's a missing episode that explained why
they suddenly hated each other.
I guess it's just another case of script-writing that was not quite up to
par in terms of continuity.
What with the studio shift and all -- and with actors coming and going --
that season was pretty uneven, and left a lot of questions unanswered (many
of those questions raised by members of this list).
Too bad they didnt get a shot at a second season. I'm sure the stories would
have been even better, as well as the FX.

--- In [hidden email], "D Persica" <dennispersica@b...> wrote: Court
> Martial, where Jackson seems to be Straker's lifelong enemy.
Straker looks
> at him with disgust the first time they see each other in that
episode.
> Was there ever any explanation for that radical change in their
> relationship? It's almost as if there's a missing episode that
explained why
> they suddenly hated each other.
> I guess it's just another case of script-writing that was not quite
up to
> par in terms of continuity.
> What with the studio shift and all -- and with actors coming and
going --
> that season was pretty uneven, and left a lot of questions
unanswered (many
> of those questions raised by members of this list).
> Too bad they didnt get a shot at a second season. I'm sure the
stories would
> have been even better, as well as the FX.

Dr Jackson (Vladek Sheybal) was always one of the characters I found
interesting as a kid so I made a point of looking him up on the
Internet. There's not much out there on him but one site did post an
interview he gave and another site is dedicated to him and has his
memoirs.

He was an interesting fellow and experienced much in his life. His
memoirs made for good reading but the thing that touched me most was
his experiences in the concentration camps during the war. I'd never
read any accounts before so it was an eye opener.

One of the things he mentioned in his memoirs was something that was
told to him by Bette Davis. She basically told him he didn't have the
looks to be leading man material but he did to be a good villian so
why not corner the market on that role, which he did. He also said
that people tend to remember your character if you play it more
sinister-like. From the interview he said he was given much leeway to
play Jackson as he liked so it's possible that Jackson's dark side
was his own portrayal rather than anything the script writers
concocted. How much of this is true, I don't know. I guess you'd have
to talk to people/actors on the set to know.

I did think he was almost mellow in "The Long Sleep", so was Straker
so what was that all about? It did amuse me to see the way Ed Bishop
played Straker when the girl threw herself into his arms at one
point. The hesitant "there there" pat on the back as if he hadn't a
clue how to comfort someone but then again maybe that's a guy thing
or am I dissing you guys?

Karen

Dragon,

Jackson would actually be a Anglicized Norman-Irish name, from
Jacques, via Irish Gaelic, Seamus being the more traditional Gaelic
form of James/Jacob. I can only guess that the doctor must work
under an assumed name as a precondition for Soviet cooperation in
assigning him to SHADO, though why that would be is a story in
itself, probably convoluted enough to fill out an episode in season
two. There is mention of Soviet cooperation with SHADO in the pilot
and "Timelash," that I can remember off hand.

Dean

--- In [hidden email], dragon haven <dragonhavn@y...> wrote: