Hi all,
Last Saturday's episode on ITV 4 was "Close up", possibly the least memorable UFO episode well personally speaking it is, since I had to view both my recording and the Carlton DVD simultaneously, in order to figure out where the edits were! :-D The first edit was made at the beginning of the NASA launch, including shots of the launch site and of mission control. The second was during the astronaut sequence fitting the device into the space probe, from the repeat of Barry Grays hauntingly beautiful incidental music. I say personally speaking, because I feel quite sure this episode ranks reasonably highly for some fans; those having a particular interest in special effects shots of the various "craft" and who enjoy "technobabble" as dialogue. I'm happy where these illustrate the plot, but this ep is necessarily over-reliant on both and is, in my view, fairly dull. I suppose space exploration was at that time in its infancy and such technical wonders fascinating to the public; but it still goes along at the pace of a funeral ;-) Furthermore, most of the episode is too reminiscent of a "Thunderbirds" episode insufficient use of the advantages of "live action", with most of the cast sitting or standing around looking grim. The script (as printed on Marcs site) shows it was shot pretty much as written so I suppose the writer is primarily responsible for my perception ? :-) In the original script there are some deleted scenes relevant to the Straker/Ellis sub-plot, which imply that this was more to do with Gay finding command of Moonbase and its personnel a struggle, rather than taking umbrage at her belief that Straker was dissatisfied with her work, which is how it appears on screen. He must've been extremely perceptive to have picked up on this, given how little evidence we see! Anyway, the "coffee" scene is the first true appreciation of having live action and it still manages to make me smile how *all* the characters involved get things so wrong ;-D Ignoring the unanswerable questions concerning how the probe managed to follow the UFO all the way back AND undetected that the UFO would even go home anyway without having a second attempt; the plot seems to be to obtain meaningful pictures of the alien home world. Apparently this isn't the case at all, which is where it becomes interesting, well, for me anyway. At the outset of the episode Kelly's "pet project" is revealed, although unclear; all we know is it is extremely small fry in comparison to the importance of Straker's billion dollar project once we are told just what his project is. It all could have been left at that it didn't work and was a huge waste of time, expense and risk to the lives of SHADO personnel, not to mention once again, SHADO is not doing what they are supposed to defending the earth and blowing the UFO away. Although Kelly should have been bricking himself over admitting the outcome to Straker, he instead used it to his own advantage, by turning the whole focus literally inward through his ingenious and risque demonstration of the problem. All eyes are now on Straker well except for those viewers that can't get over the close-up of Gay's upper thigh how is he going to react? The disappointment must be pretty overwhelming considering all his efforts and expectations and many superior officers would have taken Kellys point personally, as intended, but no. Despite the double whammy of Kelly's humiliation of him and Gay Ellis's participation in it, Straker eats humble pie with an awesome amount of grace. Yet it doesn't even end there, he feels absolutely no resentment and demonstrates genuine respect of his subordinates higher knowledge and sheer guts by finding the time to get Kelly the appropriation he wants. Nice one....... Finally, in actually watching the DVD and the ITV 4 recording simultaneously, the inferiority of the picture and sound quality was really brought home and I must add that my recording was on HDD therefore near-broadcast quality goodness knows how awful a videotape recording would've looked! Can someone tell me, why do TV channels use such appalling prints? Is this *really* the best they can do or is it just a matter of economics ie. they won't pay for better prints? Not all the ITV 4 broadcasts of that era are bad (Randall and Hopkirk comes to mind ) so what's the reason (if any) for their apparent lack of any standard? Many thanks for reading :-) Sarah |
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> Can someone tell me, why do TV
> channels use such appalling prints? Is this *really* the best they > can do or is it just a matter of economics ie. they won't pay > for better prints? I wonder if there is a phone number to complain to about the picture quality, and someone could pursue this? It sounds like they could simply broadcast the DVD versions, although then someone would be required to make some effort to edit them down to time. In fact, it could be that the only edited versions they have of UFO are the poor quality, pre-DVD copies. (and these days, stations probably don't deal with film prints -- they probably deal with digital videotape) Marc |
In reply to this post by moonbasegirl
I am sure that ITV4 are simply using the cheapest/easiest to obtain copies
they have to hand. The way that these series are arbitrarily cut and have trailers for the next programme intruding, usually at the climax of the story tells you all you need to know about ITVs attitude both to its own programmes and the viewers who watch them. Any of the ITC series telecinied in the last 10 years or so would have been telecinied digitally to Digibeta or better. Digibeta produces a better quality image than a domestic TV can reproduce. The use of digital masters in broadcast TV long predates consumer digital equipment. Of course what film elements these series have been telecinied from - and with what care makes the main difference. Preferably the elements would have been either the original cut negative or internegatives interpositives printed on 35mm from the original cut negs. In some cases this appears not to have been done. If you want to see truly appalling quality take a look at "The Adventurer". The elements appear to be very abused and there seems to have been no attempt to make the best possible transfer from those elements. Certainly that series was shot on 1970s 16mm, rather than the 35mm of most of the ITC series, but so was "Jason King" and that is a markedly better job. I assume that, because there would be more sales income from "Jason King", more care was taken with it. There is also the issue of compression on digital channels. Despite the hype (lies) about anything digital being necessarily superior quality to analogue this is certainly not the case with most digital channels. On all of the digital platforms there is the choice of presenting fewer channels at optimum quality or cramming in more channels at poor quality. All the platforms have opted for the latter which leads to all sorts of compression artefacts which tend to coarsen and muddy the picture. To see one such effect at it's most obvious look out for scenes set in fog or smoke where the image is almost totally grey. You will see shimmering colours, often in large shifting rings, as the compression software tries, and fails miserably, to find the boundaries between colours. This will tend to show up more on lower contrast images and large flat areas of less-intense colour. The set design and flattish lighting of some of the standing sets in UFO has a tendency to show up the shortcomings of digital more than, say, "Randall and Hopkirk", "The Champions" or "The Saint" which tend to have higher contrast, more saturated colour and be less flatly lit. Incidentally, DVDs are themselves more highly compressed and of poorer quality than the Digibeta (or better) masters from which they are derived. The DVDs shoved down a satellite, freeview or cable compressed-to-hell digital pipeline would look far worse than a DVD in your player - or a DigiBeta master of that same DVD. I would hesitate about complaining to a TV company in anything other than a written manner. In my experience the person who takes the call hasn't got a clue what you are talking about and will try to fit your complaint into an easily understood pigeonhole. Your complaint is likely to come out at the other end as a complaint about UFO per se or it's photography, or, worse, that you are complaining that you "don't want to see these old programmes which look terrible compared to the new stuff". Regards John |
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> To see one such effect at it's most obvious look out for scenes set in
> fog or smoke where the image is almost totally grey. You will see shimmering > colours, often in large shifting rings, as the compression software > tries, and fails miserably, to find the boundaries between colours. Although the UFO DVDs have been universally praised for their great image quality, there are still some scenes where there are some obvious degradations due to the digital compression for DVD. The Skydiver liftoff sequence (e.g. in IDENTIFIED and COMPUTER AFFAIR) is probably the worst offender, as the compression algorithm fails with the low-contrast difference between the ocean and the sub. This is one of the few sequences which definitely looked better on the older laserdisc releases. (I've seen this problem on both the UK and the US UFO DVDs). Marc |
In reply to this post by moonbasegirl
--- In [hidden email], "moonbasegirl" <shaded2cinders@y...>
wrote: >> > At the outset of the episode Kelly's "pet project" is revealed, > although unclear; all we know is it is extremely small fry in > comparison to the importance of Straker's billion dollar project > once we are told just what his project is. It all could have been > left at that it didn't work and was a huge waste of time, expense > and risk to the lives of SHADO personnel, not to mention once again, > SHADO is not doing what they are supposed to defending the earth > and blowing the UFO away. ACTUALLY, THAT'S WHAT I LIKE MOST ABOUT THIS EPISODE, THE FACT THAT FOR ONCE, SHADO TRIES TO GO ON THE OFFENSIVE (I.E. FINDING OUT MORE ABOUT THE ALIEN PLANET... AND IT'S LOCATION = AN ASSET FOR SHADO IN THEIR WAR VS. THE ALIENS !) > > All eyes are now on Straker well except for those viewers that > can't get over the close-up of Gay's upper thigh ... AS MINE WERE (LOL) how is he going > to react? The disappointment must be pretty overwhelming > considering all his efforts and expectations and many superior > officers would have taken Kellys point personally, as intended, but > no. Despite the double whammy of Kelly's humiliation of him and Gay > Ellis's participation in it, Straker eats humble pie with an awesome > amount of grace. Yet it doesn't even end there, he feels absolutely > no resentment and demonstrates genuine respect of his subordinates > higher knowledge and sheer guts by finding the time to get Kelly the > appropriation he wants. Nice one....... THAT'S WHAT I LIKE MOST ABOUT STRAKER + THIS SERIES, THE FACT THAT SUCH A STRONG AND VERY "OPINIATED" COMMANDER CAN AT TIMES ADMIT HIS MISTAKES AND ACKOLEWDGE THAT VALUE AND IDEAS OF HIS SUBORDINATES OR OF OTHER PEOPLE ! * * One of my all-time favorite scenes, in any series of film, is near the end of "Conflict": Straker: "Of only you hadn't been so pistive that you were right !" Henderson: "... like YOU were ?" ... that little knod by Straker, as if saying "... err... o.k., you got me there... touché" is priceless ! |
In reply to this post by jks
John wrote:
>I am sure that ITV4 are simply using the cheapest/easiest to obtain >copies they have to hand. The way that these series are arbitrarily >cut and have trailers for the next programme intruding, usually at >the climax of the story tells you all you need to know about ITVs >attitude both to its own programmes and the viewers who watch them. You're so right! But it hasn't always been this way. I have off-air recordings of UFO from three of the UK broadcasts since 1987 and the first copies are actually the best I have on videotape, in terms of the quality of picture and sound. These were recorded using an entry level VCR of the time on standard VHS tape, from a TV aerial signal. However, all of my recordings, whatever the source and tape quality, were superior to the pre-recorded PAL VHS tapes released in the UK in the 1990s, their one redeeming feature being there were no commercial breaks to FF through! ;-) >Any of the ITC series telecinied in the last 10 years or so would >have been telecinied digitally to Digibeta or better. Digibeta >produces a better quality image than a domestic TV can reproduce. >The use of digital masters in broadcast TV long predates consumer >digital equipment. Of course what film elements these series have >been telecinied from and with what care makes the main >difference. Preferably the elements would have been either the >original cut negative or internegatives interpositives printed on >35mm from the original cut negs. In some cases this appears not to >have been done. What you're saying is there's no way that this is what ITV 4 have done for UFO? It strikes me that ITV 4 must be using copies of those old pre-recorded tapes for their transmissions, as my ITV 4 recordings look even worse than they did! In respect of the edits, none of my off-air recordings of the past were edited I'm guessing these have been done especially for this screening; someone please correct me if I'm wrong >There is also the issue of compression on digital channels. Despite >the hype (lies) about anything digital being necessarily superior >quality to analogue this is certainly not the case with most >digital channels. On all of the digital platforms there is the >choice of presenting fewer channels at optimum quality or cramming >in more channels at poor quality. All the platforms have opted for >the latter which leads to all sorts of compression artefacts which >tend to coarsen and muddy the picture. I appreciate enough of what you're saying to understand that this must be why it is that, despite my now having digital cable and an HDD as my "off-air" recording facilities, the ITV 4 screenings are nowhere *near* the quality of the analogue tapes I made in 1987, never mind the DVDs! This is completely ridiculous, imo. I recall subscribing to cable for a while in 1994 and sending back several analogue receivers because the picture quality was worse than the aerial, until I had to accept that was the *best* cable could produce at that time. Would this be for similar reasons - ie, the signal was compressed somehow? Could it have been deliberate, ie, lower the quality therefore expectation of the average viewer so it would be less noticeable when they started really taking the p**s? Now, ten years on from there, the quality is not amazingly better on most channels, despite being digital and when really crap sources are obviously being used, whatever's the point in our spending all this money on so-called *upgrades* in home entertainment systems? Obviously not to watch "television"! Honestly, if it was me paying the sub, I'd cancel and put the money towards renting or buying DVDs of those series/ films I want to see ;-D >I would hesitate about complaining to a TV company in anything >other than a written manner. In my experience the person who takes >the call hasn't got a clue what you are talking about and will try >to fit your complaint into an easily understood pigeonhole. Your >complaint is likely to come out at the other end as a complaint >about UFO per se or it's photography, or, worse, that you are >complaining that you "don't want to see these old programmes which >look terrible compared to the new stuff". Unfortunately, I have to agree with this; I'd go further and say any method of complaint directed at ITV 4 themselves would be a waste of time. Surely there must be a "watchdog" type commission for television broadcasting companies that are meant to act on behalf of the consumer that might take notice where channels are broadcasting such dreadfully inferior transfers? ITV 4 must be *raking* in money, judging by the length of the commercial breaks even longer because they've edited surely they should be required to meet some minimum standard? If not, they flipping well ought to! }:-( One final comment i.r.o. ITV 4, they've stopped screening a repeat around 2.30am Sunday of the episode shown Saturday at 7pm since Christmas. Shame, because there were alot less adverts - probably why I expect. I hope this doesn't mean they'll finish the run prematurely :-( "Furious UK television viewer" aka Sarah P.S. Despite all this ranting, I notice that the list membership has continued to rise, I'm assuming mostly because of the ITV 4 screenings, so there is at least one positive out of it :-D |
"I have off-air
recordings of UFO from three of the UK broadcasts since 1987 and the first copies are actually the best I have on videotape, in terms of the quality of picture and sound." There used to be very high technical standards for the source material to be broadcast terrestrially. The minimum requirements would be that a programme was produced on16mm or 35mm film or whatever the highest quality professional video format was at the time - now miniDV is often accepted. The programmes would be mastered on the highest quality video format. Everything went through very demanding QC checks and would be actually rejected for broadcast if substandard. The equipment may now be capable of better quality pictures than ever but there isn't the same pressure to make the best possible pictures and deliver them at the highest possible quality. Pre-recorded VHS tapes were and are produced in high volume and certainly used to be poorer quality than a home recording from a decent analogue signal. "Now, ten years on from there, the quality is not amazingly better on most channels, despite being digital..." Digital is NOT necessarily better quality than analogue. A picture can be made up of millions of pixels, which can look very good, or a handful of pixels which will look appalling - they are both "digital". To repeat, simply slapping a "digital" label on something indicates nothing about quality. A good analogue signal will produce a better image than a present Freeview or Sky digital signal. That may change with "HD" (another overhyped and semi-meaningless label when it comes to describing quality) but expect to pay through the nose for it. I am sure that the edits were made for the present screenings. They can cram in more ads without having to start the next programme at 5 minutes past the hour. They obviously believe that their audience is too stupid to handle programmes which don't start on the hour. This type of editing is common on some channels e.g. old editions of Time Team on the documentary channels (not the recent More 4 screenings). "It strikes me that ITV 4 must be using copies of those old pre-recorded tapes for their transmissions," No, I think they are just mediocre copies possibly made on older generations of telecine machines some time ago, then compressed to hell by the digital pipeline. "...despite my now having digital cable and an HDD as my "off-air" recording facilities, the ITV 4 screenings are nowhere *near* the quality of the analogue tapes I made in 1987, never mind the DVDs! This is completely ridiculous, imo. " Agreed, but the main difference is that in 1987 the TV channels were doing their best to broadcast the best possible picture with the technology available. Few of them now give a damn. Digital transmission has always been about more channels and the money that would produce, not picture or sound quality. There is a trade off - fewer channels = better quality, more channels = poorer quality. The latter equation has always been chosen. John |
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:49:35 -0000
"JKS" <[hidden email]> wrote: > A good analogue signal will produce a better image than a present > Freeview or Sky digital signal. My experience tells me you're right about Sky, but not Freeview. A good Freeview transmission will comfortably beat any analogue TV picture I've ever seen. Sky on the other hand always seems to look overcompressed whenever I've seen it, and a decent analogue picture is very much to be preferred. James -- Dig It : a forum for Euro Beatles fans - http://beatles.dyndns.org/ |
"My experience tells me you're right about Sky, but not Freeview. A
good Freeview transmission will comfortably beat any analogue TV picture I've ever seen. " Perhaps - it depends on your reception. My less than perfect analogue reception produces a comparable picture to both my full-strength Freeview signal or better than average Sky signal. On Freeview there is a similar level of noticeable compression artefacts as on Sky for the same channel. It is worth noting that Channels 1-5 on their digital platforms tend to use less heavy compression than other channels. ITV2, 3 and 4, for example, have more compression artefacts than ITV1 and it is very noticeable on a TV of any size and definition. Some of the more obscure channels on the Sky platform are so compressed as to be barely watchable. John |
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