Later episodes of UFO

Hi all,

I have to say on reading James's comments on the later eps of UFO. I find
myself in disagreement with some his views.

Sure enough the later eps such as Timelash and The Long Sleep did reflect a
definite qualitative change in the direction UFO was taking at the time. But
rather than illustrating a decline in quality from the earlier eps which
were indeed of high quality, they reflected a new mode of thinking which was
infact very indicative of what was actually going on within UK society in
the late 1960's. A good example of this is in the ep The Long Sleep where
their is the very clever juxta position of the basic science fiction premise
on which UFO was based i.e Aliens coming to Earth, and that of the
hallucinogenic scenes which were obviously illustrative of the contemporary
drug culture of the time and the effects such usage could have on the mind.
In some ways I would actually go as far as saying, the later eps were
reflective of the series maturing into an adult only type of science
fiction. This I believe was probably necessary since any series if it was to
have any longevity, needs to develop and grow in new directions. UFO bravely
attempted this and okay it failed. Whether or not this failure was directly
caused by this change in direction is a matter for debate. Here it is worth
taking note that a decline in viewing figures is not necessarily a good
indicator of whether or not a series has lost its quality. For this, one
only has to look at the experience of the original Star Trek series. This
was almost cancelled after series two because of poor viewing figures and I
hope nobody is going to tell me series one and two of that series were of
poor quality!!

I accept the point that if Timelash was the first ep, this would have
probably put off more people than it attracted. The early eps (1-17) were of
course essential in laying the basic the groundwork as it were for what the
seies was about. But as said before, any series especially science fiction
if it is to survive, needs to build on what it has previously achieved,
adapt, and move in newish directions.

Any comments please.

John


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WooHoo!! <clap clap clap> Here here! <whistle whistle>

I agree.

:o)

John Wadsworth-Ladkin wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have to say on reading James's comments on the later eps of UFO. I find
> myself in disagreement with some his views.

snip

> I accept the point that if Timelash was the first ep, this would have
> probably put off more people than it attracted.

Except with this bit - I LOVED Timelash, darnit!! <stamping foot>

-- Y

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John wrote:

[snipped] (lot's of good stuff)
>
>Any comments please.

Difficult, as most list members won't (and, are unlikely to, following
'accepted' TV network practices) become into a position where they'll
even be in the *vicinity* to 'catch' a one-off like this (ie the show
you're talking about).
As a FAN, I attempt to remedy such situations.

TTFN
--
Rob

Well said.

Ironically Timelash is now considered the most popular episode.

My issue is specifically with "The Long Sleep". Granted it was
contemporary, but it just doesn't make sense in relation to the
rest of the series. The Aliens planting a bomb in a rural barn. Why?
Throw in a painting, and it could have made into an episode of
Night Gallery.

Ending the season on this episode left me wondering if a second
season would have been more about bizarre tales of UFO "phenomena".

But even then, I'd still have watched.



John Wadsworth-Ladkin wrote:
> ...

> I accept the point that if Timelash was the first ep, this would have
> probably put off more people than it attracted. The early eps (1-17) were of
> course essential in laying the basic the groundwork as it were for what the
> seies was about. But as said before, any series especially science fiction
> if it is to survive, needs to build on what it has previously achieved,
> adapt, and move in newish directions.
>
> Any comments please.

Keith Carpenter wrote:

> My issue is specifically with "The Long Sleep". Granted it was
> contemporary, but it just doesn't make sense in relation to the
> rest of the series. The Aliens planting a bomb in a rural barn.
> Why? Throw in a painting, and it could have made into an
> episode of Night Gallery.
>

That's one of the problems about UFO in general and the later
episodes in particular - some of the plot themes aren't
consistent with the premise of the series as established in the
first few episodes. Presumably they wanted to cause death &
destruction on a huge scale - but why? Same thing in DESTRUCTION.

James

Hi Y,

I think you have slightly misunderstood the point I was making with regards
to the Timelash ep. Yes like yourself, I think Timelash is an excellent ep -
possibly the most cerebral of the entire series (so you can stop stamping
the foot now :-). The point here is that without the early eps laying the
foundations for what UFO was about, such an ep shown so early in the series
would have most likely been considered by the ordinary general public as
either too cerebral or simply too far out. In other words, once the early
eps had laid the basic foundations of the series, the writers at a later
stage then had the license to develop more complicated, intricate, even
controversial story lines which would by that stage appeal to the captive
audience.

The best analogy I can think of is again with that of Star Trek. See for
example the ep Plato's Stepchildren. No way would it have been possible for
Capt Kirk to kiss Lt Uhura in the first ep. It was because of what had been
created before in the early eps that such an ep could be made and even shown
on TV. Again, many of the excellent stories in ST TNG could only have been
created because of what had been previously established in the original
series.

Put like this, I suppose a successful sci fi series is something akin to an
archeological site - it is constantly building upon earlier foundations.

John
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--- In [hidden email], James Gibbon <jg@m...> wrote:
The aliens probably wanted to cause mass destruction to then land
and have free pick of thousands of body parts from the rubble.
Charles

[hidden email] wrote:

>
> The aliens probably wanted to cause mass destruction to then land
> and have free pick of thousands of body parts from the rubble.
> Charles
>

In the DESTRUCTION scenario, all those human organs would have
become contaminated by deadly toxic chemicals. But maybe they
could have cleaned them up somehow .. who knows?

James

John wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have to say on reading James's comments on the later eps of UFO. I find
>myself in disagreement with some his views.

James' middle name is Controversial :-)
No offense, James! Besides, this time I agree with you, in a way. Maybe the
quality didn't really suffer but the topics were a bit iffy, or surreal if
one likes to put it that way. I'm sure quite a lot of people like this (as
some like Salvador Dali paintings) and it's definitely sci-fi. If plots had
to make sense in all sci-fi stuff, I doubt there would be much sci-fi out
there :-)
Personally I don't like the plots of the latter eps much, but I still like
timelash and Mindbender a LOT in spite of that. I do not like the Long Sleep.

As far as eventual viewing figures are concerned, I doubt one can go by
them (if they exist at all) since the broadcast times of UFO were messed
about with. Those latter eps were broadcasted late at night, weren't they?
Not considered suitable viewing for youngsters....

CU

Lieve




>Sure

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* Lieve Peten, Vlaanderen, Belgium : Mailto:[hidden email]
* Internet Sites link page: http://pinball.iwarp.com/mysites.html
* The Pinball Site * Loch Ness + UFOs in Belgium * Vangelis *
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Hi Lieve,

Lieve wrote:

>
> James' middle name is Controversial :-)

I bet one or two listers would suggest another middle name, but
either way, you can call me James C Gibbon ;)

> interpretation for that middle initial
> No offense, James! Besides, this time I agree with you, in a way. Maybe the
> quality didn't really suffer but the topics were a bit iffy, or surreal if
> one likes to put it that way.

No offence taken :) And none intended - we've argued about
Timelash before (this episode in particular seems to polarise
opinion on the Pinewood episodes, doesn't it?) and there are always
good points on both sides. I was actually quite pleased to see
that a handful of people broadly agreed with me about Timelash when
we discussed it a couple of months ago, though I think it's fair to
say we are a little outnumbered.


Well - I think that there WAS an attempt to reach out to more
cerebral themes, as John said. But I don't think it was very
successful, and I also think there was a noticeable step-down in
the overall quality in a way that isn't necessarily associated
with the change to more surreal subject matter. The absence of
some of the key members of the cast from the first set of
episodes, and the obviously low-budget nature of episodes like
Timelash and Mindbender are cases in point. And the ideas (like
the notion that the Aliens are not actually humanoid but just
stealing bodies) often seem a bit ill-thought-out and half-baked,
jarring with the scenario already established by the episodes
that have gone before.

> I'm sure quite a lot of people like this (as
> some like Salvador Dali paintings) and it's definitely sci-fi. If plots had
> to make sense in all sci-fi stuff, I doubt there would be much sci-fi out
> there :-)
> Personally I don't like the plots of the latter eps much, but I still like
> timelash and Mindbender a LOT in spite of that. I do not like the Long Sleep.
>

You know that's interesting because as I posted during the
episode-of-the-week discussions, I quite like The Long Sleep, but
in spite of, rather than because of, the plot idea.. I think it's
quite well done. The sepia-toned scenes in the West End have such
a dreamy, nostalgic feel and the bit where the Aliens chase the
two drugged-up youngsters over the roof of the house is really
wild and that sort of makes up for the ideas that I can't swallow,
like the transfer of longevity from one human being to another,
then the hippy turning into a skeleton as soon as he dies .. it's
a bit 'Hammer Horror'.

It's also interesting that one of my 2 or 3 favourite episodes,
The Man Who Came Back, is one of the Pinewood batch, so I wouldn't
say it's a cut and dried case of UFO 'jumping the shark' with the
first of the later set of episodes, by any means.

> As far as eventual viewing figures are concerned, I doubt one can go by
> them (if they exist at all) since the broadcast times of UFO were messed
> about with. Those latter eps were broadcasted late at night, weren't they?
> Not considered suitable viewing for youngsters....
>

That's true - and to some extent the success or otherwise, in
viewing figures terms, of a particular episode are often determined
by the perceived quality of the previously-screened episode.

Cheers all
James

John Wadsworth-Ladkin wrote:

> Hi Y,
>
> I think you have slightly misunderstood the point I was making with regards
> to the Timelash ep. Yes like yourself, I think Timelash is an excellent ep -
> possibly the most cerebral of the entire series (so you can stop stamping
> the foot now :-).

Hey, <narrowing eyes> I'm Klingon, I'll stamp my foot if I want to.
<grrrrrrrrr>

<hmph>

Besides, I knew what you were saying, and I agreed.

<bow bow>

-- Y

--
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Yuchtar zantai-Klaan | [hidden email]
I am not a number! I am a FREE FAN!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Ooooh, Brisco!! Warn me before you
get nekkid in front of me!"
-- Lord Bowler
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://users4.50megs.com/yuchtar
http://users2.50megs.com/nunzie

Maybe the Aliens had become so frustrated by SHADO,
they decided to just trash the planet. Not very pragmatic.

Ever see They Live?
Yuppy Aliens with a profit motive.



James Gibbon wrote:

Groovy!!

John
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