Plot holes

B ut ., as i remember ., it was Saagul Xray., that was transporting the equipment to Shado to be installed...that was when the u.f. o attacked,.maybe i missed a plot jump.

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like where they are detecting and tracking UFO's before they have their tracking equipment installed yet, in Episode One.

....And, they're broadcasting freely to everyone listening on radio including aliens, that it's the priceless utronics tracking equipment they're shipping across to the moon, yes, right now aliens....come and get it!....

....Then, the aliens detect the shipment & send out a ship, and make a 6 month + journey across space to intercept this equipment on it's 3 day journey across to the moon.... and still make it in time to intercept!

Dave H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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You are correct. It was Seagull X-Ray transporting the U-Tronic equipment to S.H.A.D.O. HQ. : )

Jeff

paul foster <[hidden email]> wrote:
B ut ., as i remember ., it was Saagul Xray., that was transporting the equipment to Shado to be installed...that was when the u.f. o attacked,.maybe i missed a plot jump.

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like where they are detecting and tracking UFO's before they have their tracking equipment installed yet, in Episode One.

....And, they're broadcasting freely to everyone listening on radio including aliens, that it's the priceless utronics tracking equipment they're shipping across to the moon, yes, right now aliens....come and get it!....

....Then, the aliens detect the shipment & send out a ship, and make a 6 month + journey across space to intercept this equipment on it's 3 day journey across to the moon.... and still make it in time to intercept!

Dave H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
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That was earlier in the show. Later, when they are shipping the gear out to moonbase, the girls on moonbase, SID, and the controllers on Earth are freely broadcasting all their intentions and the progress of the flight as it's heading out for the moon.
Dave H.


-----------------------------------------------------------




----- Original Message -----
From: paul foster
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Plot holes & incobsistencies


B ut ., as i remember ., it was Saagul Xray., that was transporting the equipment to Shado to be installed...that was when the u.f. o attacked,.maybe i missed a plot jump.

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like where they are detecting and tracking UFO's before they have their tracking equipment installed yet, in Episode One.

....And, they're broadcasting freely to everyone listening on radio including aliens, that it's the priceless utronics tracking equipment they're shipping across to the moon, yes, right now aliens....come and get it!....

....Then, the aliens detect the shipment & send out a ship, and make a 6 month + journey across space to intercept this equipment on it's 3 day journey across to the moon.... and still make it in time to intercept!

Dave H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

But the only time the U-Tronics equipment was (almost) attacked while in transit was when it was traveling from Los Angeles to England aboard Seagull X-Ray. The equipment was then distributed to Moonbase and "the other tracking stations". I also saw no discussion of the planned trip to the moon (with the equipment) between Moonbase and SHADO HQ. Moonbase and Skydiver were notified by HQ to be on alert not long before (maybe an hour) Seagull X-Ray took off from L.A. for England. It's not implausible that the UFO was already most of the way to Earth for other reasons, when it intercepted the communications regarding the travel plans for the equipment (a sheer coincidence).

Jeff

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:

That was earlier in the show. Later, when they are shipping the gear out to moonbase, the girls on moonbase, SID, and the controllers on Earth are freely broadcasting all their intentions and the progress of the flight as it's heading out for the moon.
Dave H.

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----- Original Message -----
From: paul foster
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Plot holes & incobsistencies

B ut ., as i remember ., it was Saagul Xray., that was transporting the equipment to Shado to be installed...that was when the u.f. o attacked,.maybe i missed a plot jump.

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like where they are detecting and tracking UFO's before they have their tracking equipment installed yet, in Episode One.

....And, they're broadcasting freely to everyone listening on radio including aliens, that it's the priceless utronics tracking equipment they're shipping across to the moon, yes, right now aliens....come and get it!....

....Then, the aliens detect the shipment & send out a ship, and make a 6 month + journey across space to intercept this equipment on it's 3 day journey across to the moon.... and still make it in time to intercept!

Dave H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
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I would think it logical that all SHADO communications are encrypted?

e.g. Court Martial. All SkyDiver operational communications are
encrypted as shown during the court scene. It follows that all radio,
telemetry and other communications are encypted as well.

I would be horrified if it wasn't...

Best to all :)

Griff

CONTENTS DELETED

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:36:13 -0000
"Griff Wason" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would think it logical that all SHADO communications are encrypted?
>
> e.g. Court Martial. All SkyDiver operational communications are
> encrypted as shown during the court scene. It follows that all radio,
> telemetry and other communications are encypted as well.

Are they shown as 'encrypted', in real time? I think 'scrambling' was
understood for voice communications back then, but not real-time
encryption.

James

Scrambling (or jumbling of the analogue frequencies over a carrier,
multiplexing (time-slicing) the same message, or even time-frequency
alternating/changing carriers) was and is 'real-time', unbelievably
still used is certain quarters.

Encoding (by definition) is encryption - real-time or not. Also,
rather like email (real-time) has two meanings. Whether or not the
outgoing message is encoded at point of transmission (for
reception/reading at a later time), or interactively does makes a
difference.

Best to all :)

Griff

Even if that is so....how are they detecting and tracking those UFO's without their equipment yet?
Dave H.


----------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Nelson
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Plot holes & incobsistencies


You are correct. It was Seagull X-Ray transporting the U-Tronic equipment to S.H.A.D.O. HQ. : )

Jeff

paul foster <[hidden email]> wrote:
B ut ., as i remember ., it was Saagul Xray., that was transporting the equipment to Shado to be installed...that was when the u.f. o attacked,.maybe i missed a plot jump.

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like where they are detecting and tracking UFO's before they have their tracking equipment installed yet, in Episode One.

....And, they're broadcasting freely to everyone listening on radio including aliens, that it's the priceless utronics tracking equipment they're shipping across to the moon, yes, right now aliens....come and get it!....

....Then, the aliens detect the shipment & send out a ship, and make a 6 month + journey across space to intercept this equipment on it's 3 day journey across to the moon.... and still make it in time to intercept!

Dave H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can't answer that point, and wasn't disputing it in the first place (seems like a plot hole to me too). Merely clarifying the details. : )

Jeff

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:

Even if that is so....how are they detecting and tracking those UFO's without their equipment yet?
Dave H.

----------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Nelson
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Plot holes & incobsistencies

You are correct. It was Seagull X-Ray transporting the U-Tronic equipment to S.H.A.D.O. HQ. : )

Jeff

paul foster <[hidden email]> wrote:
B ut ., as i remember ., it was Saagul Xray., that was transporting the equipment to Shado to be installed...that was when the u.f. o attacked,.maybe i missed a plot jump.

davrecon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like where they are detecting and tracking UFO's before they have their tracking equipment installed yet, in Episode One.

....And, they're broadcasting freely to everyone listening on radio including aliens, that it's the priceless utronics tracking equipment they're shipping across to the moon, yes, right now aliens....come and get it!....

....Then, the aliens detect the shipment & send out a ship, and make a 6 month + journey across space to intercept this equipment on it's 3 day journey across to the moon.... and still make it in time to intercept!

Dave H.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:22:48 -0400
"davrecon" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Even if that is so....how are they detecting and tracking those UFO's
> without their equipment yet? Dave H.
>

I think the Utronics equipment was an upgrade, or a replacement for an
existing tracking method.

James

Just in reply to this thread. Wasn't poor Lt Ford dragged over "Strakers Carpet" for sending a non encoded message. Can't remember the episode, but it's the one that forever branded Ford as someone who makes mistakes. A bit unfair when you consider it was his only recorded mistake and plenty of mistakes were made by others (now there is a new thread!)
So it seems that there was some form of "encryption" was used. They also mention secure lines in the episode I believe.
Lyn the Aussie

1a.
Re: Plot holes & inconsistencies
Posted by: "Griff Wason" [hidden email] glwason
Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:36 am (PST)
I would think it logical that all SHADO communications are encrypted?

e.g. Court Martial. All SkyDiver operational communications are
encrypted as shown during the court scene. It follows that all radio,
telemetry and other communications are encypted as well.

I would be horrified if it wasn't...

Best to all :)

Griff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Lyn,

Yes, you're right. It was from 'Identified', and Straker was 'tearing
a strip' from Lt. Ford for having 'only' used Security Code 'B' for an
important transmission to SkyDiver.

So, evidently, there are various levels of security communications in
SHADO. Obviously, Straker didn't think Code 'B' employed a strong
enough encryption for so important a message.

Best to all :)

Griff

--- In [hidden email], "lynchambers2002" <Sonstar58@...> wrote:
>
> Just in reply to this thread. Wasn't poor Lt Ford dragged over
"Strakers Carpet" for sending a non encoded message. Can't remember
the episode, but it's the one that forever branded Ford as someone who
makes mistakes. A bit unfair when you consider it was his only
recorded mistake and plenty of mistakes were made by others (now there
is a new thread!)
> So it seems that there was some form of "encryption" was used. They
also mention secure lines in the episode I believe.
> Lyn the Aussie

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:26:10 +1000
"lynchambers2002" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just in reply to this thread. Wasn't poor Lt Ford dragged over
> "Strakers Carpet" for sending a non encoded message. Can't remember
> the episode, but it's the one that forever branded Ford as someone
> who makes mistakes. A bit unfair when you consider it was his only
> recorded mistake and plenty of mistakes were made by others (now
> there is a new thread!) So it seems that there was some form of
> "encryption" was used.

Yes, well encryption goes back a long way - the Germans used the Enigma
machine in WW2 to encode messages to U-boats for example.

The question is whether voice communications in real time would have
been 'encrypted'.

James

Hi James,

Yes, Mary Queens of Scots (soon to be beheaded) had messages
'ciphered', and smuggled out of the castle she was imprisoned in, back
in Elizabethan times.

I seem to remember that 'ciphers' go back as far as the Egyptians
(certainly used in the 4th Dynasty - Khufu commissioned the large
pyramid (Cheops)) and also the Chinese employed ciphers given to
messengers (runners) to communicate state information over the vast
distances of that huge land. The Chinese system used symbolic
substitution, whereas the Egyptians used symbolic and substitution
methods. The Greeks were even cleverer, and employed what cold
legitimately called encryption - it's such a dreadful thing that the
library at Alexandria was burnt to the ground - all the knowledge of
ages lost... ah well.

Best :)

Griff

> Yes, well encryption goes back a long way - the Germans used the Enigma
> machine in WW2 to encode messages to U-boats for example.
>
> The question is whether voice communications in real time would have
> been 'encrypted'.
>
> James
>

There have been several plot inconsistencies which have bothered me
over the years.

No 1 is the clearly faster than light speed of the SHADO probe used to
track back to the alien planet in 'Close Up'. I also don't buy the
plot twist that they have no idea how big the alien planet is. On such
a probe there would be many instruments, as well as the flight record
to determine, distances / accelerations / gravity etc, from which an
estimate of the planet's size and location could be derived.

My only explanation of this is that the aliens knew they were being
tracked, and took over the probe whilst in transit, and disabled many
of the spacecraft systems. They then reprogrammed it's flight plan and
sent it back to Earth as a joke (Cue aliens holding their sides with
laughter). Clearly the pictures being transmitted are of Earth from a
low orbit.

No 2 is in 'Exposed'. It's implied by Foster that Straker's background
as a senior military officer had in some way been suppressed, whereas
I'm sure the media of the day would have made a big thing about such a
career change, given there was no attempt to change his name from his
Air Force days. Anyone up for Norman Schwarzkopf running Nickelodeon?

No 3 is in 'The Long Sleep'. It's an odd thing that landing and
launching a Space Dumper in the south of England (remember it's not
too far from London)would not attract an enormous amount of attention.
Maybe that was the 1980s take on alternatives to Landfill sites &
recycling!

Nonetheless this remains my favourite episode.

Dave

 

--- In [hidden email], James Gibbon <jg@...> wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:54:31 -0000
"Dave_Copley" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No 2 is in 'Exposed'. It's implied by Foster that Straker's background
> as a senior military officer had in some way been suppressed, whereas
> I'm sure the media of the day would have made a big thing about such a
> career change, given there was no attempt to change his name from his
> Air Force days. Anyone up for Norman Schwarzkopf running Nickelodeon?
>

I don't think it's quite the same. Straker wasn't a household name
like Stormin' Norman, just an anonymous intelligence officer.

Has the final Kryptos message been solved? I'd work that into a script.

Paul


Griff Wason wrote:

It's been a long time since I viewed that particular ep, but my favorite from "Long Sleep" is - when that girl drops the detonator into that rowboat under the bridge, and then SHADO personnel go looking for it 10 years later....and find it still laying in that same boat, still under that same bridge 10 years later undisturbed.
Dave H.



----------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: Dave_Copley
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Plot holes & incobsistencies


There have been several plot inconsistencies which have bothered me
over the years.

No 1 is the clearly faster than light speed of the SHADO probe used to
track back to the alien planet in 'Close Up'. I also don't buy the
plot twist that they have no idea how big the alien planet is. On such
a probe there would be many instruments, as well as the flight record
to determine, distances / accelerations / gravity etc, from which an
estimate of the planet's size and location could be derived.

My only explanation of this is that the aliens knew they were being
tracked, and took over the probe whilst in transit, and disabled many
of the spacecraft systems. They then reprogrammed it's flight plan and
sent it back to Earth as a joke (Cue aliens holding their sides with
laughter). Clearly the pictures being transmitted are of Earth from a
low orbit.

No 2 is in 'Exposed'. It's implied by Foster that Straker's background
as a senior military officer had in some way been suppressed, whereas
I'm sure the media of the day would have made a big thing about such a
career change, given there was no attempt to change his name from his
Air Force days. Anyone up for Norman Schwarzkopf running Nickelodeon?

No 3 is in 'The Long Sleep'. It's an odd thing that landing and
launching a Space Dumper in the south of England (remember it's not
too far from London)would not attract an enormous amount of attention.
Maybe that was the 1980s take on alternatives to Landfill sites &
recycling!

Nonetheless this remains my favourite episode.

Dave

--- In [hidden email], James Gibbon <jg@...> wrote:




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], "davrecon" <davrecon@...> wrote:
>
>
> It's been a long time since I viewed that particular ep, but my
favorite from "Long Sleep" is - when that girl drops the detonator
into that rowboat under the bridge, and then SHADO personnel go
looking for it 10 years later....and find it still laying in that same
boat, still under that same bridge 10 years later undisturbed.
> Dave H.
>
>

That one never fails to make me cringe.

David