Real " SUB-SMASH "

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Real " SUB-SMASH "

BedsitterOne
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Re: Real " SUB-SMASH "

Tiger Fly
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:04:45 EDT [hidden email] writes:
>Look at this article.
>Hopes Sink For Russian Sub=20
'Kursk' May Be Too Far Down In Barents Sea For Rescue=20
>Expert Says Russians Ill-Equipped For Saving Crew=20
>No Firm Word On Crew; Navy Says No Weapons On Board=20
>MOSCOW, August 14, 2000


Not to sound disrepectful to the possible reality of this
event but the movie Red October comes to mind ....
A deception of a sinking maybe?

However, too bad they junked the huge submarine
rescue ship built by Howard Hughes...

Tiger
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Re: Real " SUB-SMASH "

BedsitterOne
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Re: Real " SUB-SMASH "

Keith Carpenter
In reply to this post by Tiger Fly
Doubtful this is a ruse.
Ol' Jimmy Carter was on TV tonight saying poor maintenance was most
likely the cause. He's probably right.

The Glomar Explorer was an amazing ship. Should have been for what
it cost us. Almost pulled off a big intelligence coup. If only
that Ruskie sub didn't break apart in the wrong way (the encryption
equipment sank).

Today the concern is simply humanitarian.


Tiger Fly wrote:

>
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:04:45 EDT [hidden email] writes:
> >Look at this article.
> >Hopes Sink For Russian Sub=20
> 'Kursk' May Be Too Far Down In Barents Sea For Rescue=20
> >Expert Says Russians Ill-Equipped For Saving Crew=20
> >No Firm Word On Crew; Navy Says No Weapons On Board=20
> >MOSCOW, August 14, 2000
>
> Not to sound disrepectful to the possible reality of this
> event but the movie Red October comes to mind ....
> A deception of a sinking maybe?
>
> However, too bad they junked the huge submarine
> rescue ship built by Howard Hughes...
>
> Tiger
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Re: Real " SUB-SMASH "

BedsitterOne
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Re: Real " SUB-SMASH "

Keith Carpenter
This seems to be more a matter of national pride than security.
Whether it's this sub of that rust bucket MIR, they refuse to accept
the reality of the situation. Very sad..



[hidden email] wrote:

>
> Here is a short article on what we could use.
> U.S. Has Deep Water Submersible for Rescues
> Reuters
>
> WASHINGTON (Aug. 14) - The United States, which has offered to help Russia
> try to rescue over 100 sailors from a disabled submarine, would in similar
> situations probably use a special craft to take the crew off the seabed, U.S.
> defense officials said Monday.
>
> Moscow has not accepted Washington's offer of assistance in dealing with the
> submarine Kursk, which is at the bottom of the Barents Sea inside the Arctic
> Circle.
>
> The United States has two Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicles (DSRVs), the
> Avalon and the Mystic, that can conduct rescue operations in depths of up to
> 2,000 feet.
>
> The Avalon is operable, while the Mystic is being recertified after
> maintenance, a Navy spokeswoman said. Both were launched in the 1970s, but
> neither has carried out a rescue operation.
>
> The optimum condition for a DSRV rescue would be for the submarine to be
> resting upright or to be tilted no more than 45 degrees to one side.
>
> The rescue craft, which looks like a miniature submarine, would latch onto
> the disabled vessel's hatch, and crew members could transfer, with up to 24
> being transported in one trip.
>
> Rear Adm. Craig Quigley, a Pentagon spokesman, said, ``We would offer help of
> whatever (kind) the Russians would find helpful.''
>
> At the Russian sub's reported depth, sending the crew out through torpedo
> hatches is probably not possible because of the water pressure, Quigley said.
>
> U.S. defense officials said the U.S. submarine rescue vehicle was probably
> compatible with the Russian sub.
>
> The Russian sailors probably have battery-powered electricity and the means
> of replenishing oxygen for a certain amount of time, a retired naval officer
> involved with the U.S. submarine rescue program told a media briefing.
>
> The Russian sub is probably running air conditioning from batteries power,
> the officer said on condition of anonymity, but he added that he did not know
> how long power would last.
>
> Pretty eerie how this disaster resembles Subsmash. Although I rather doubt
> they had a superior officer aboard who joined the mission deliberately to
> challenge his own claustrophobia.
> I agree with Keith, I saw that interview with Pres. Carter, and as an old
> Navy man he knows the situation. But I am beginning to wonder why the
> Russians so far are refusing our assistance/not requesting it.
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RE: Real " SUB-SMASH "

Jason Hellwege-2
In reply to this post by BedsitterOne
> Navy man he knows the situation. But I am beginning to wonder why the
> Russians so far are refusing our assistance/not requesting it.

I think that it's also a matter of what practical help other countries
can offer. I understand that the US DSRVs can't dock with anything other
than US designed subs. I suspect the story is the same for most of the
other equipment involved. Having help is great, but if it's just going
to clutter the rescue site with more ships, and create lots of wrangling
and language mix-ups when you're short on time already, how much help
would the help be?

What I *really* want to see is Thunderbird-2 circling the Danger Zone
about to drop the pod with TB-4 in it. (Go Gordon!)

Jason.

Jason Hellwege Email: [hidden email]


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Re: Real " SUB-SMASH "

Lieve
In reply to this post by BedsitterOne
Amelia wrote:
>In a message dated 8/14/00 10:09:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>[hidden email] writes:
>
>
>determine how genuine this incident is. That's just my guess, I'm not
>familiar with what is possible. It does make me nervous when the Russians
>refuse our help in this matter, which I understand they are doing. It does
>lead me to believe there's more going on then they've said.

Not necessarily. May have to do with the law at Sea - the laws about
salvaging ships. Ship, submarine, same thing in this case.
If a ship were to salvage the sub in its entirety (not just rescue the
people trapped in it), the Russians may not be able to afford the bill,
hence the vessel could possibly be impounded by the company (or vessel and
its owner) doing the salvaging. And salvaging costs heaps! I've heard
stories about ships not really in that much of trouble, getting helped by
another ship, and receiving huuuuge bills, in spite of refusing help (since
they didn't really need it)
I'm sure no country wants its technology (or absence of it) to fall into
the hands of another country. And an eventual salvaging company would have
no problems finding a buyer for the vessel... If a ship belonging to the
navy of another nation were to do the salvaging, they may have a right to
the sub. They could at least impound it until the bill for the salvaging
was paid, and have a good look around first.
If national security is at stake, of course the lives of individuals aren't
important, that stands to reason. Else the wouldn't be any wars going on
anywhere, would there (apart from our war with the aliens)

CU

Lieve



CU

Lieve




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