SHADO BLACK & WHITE MONITOR SCREENS

>
> I'm curious about something Gerry Anderson said in his commentary on the Carlton DVD boxed set. He mentioned that it was technically very difficult to have colour TV monitor screens at SHADO, which is why they are in black & white. What puzzles me is how they managed to achieve this in "Star Trek" the original series. The monitors and main viewing screen were in perfect quality colour. Why couldn't Gerry adopt their method of doing this? I'm sure there's a valid reason why it wasn't possible, but I can't figure itout.
>
> All the Best,
>
> BRIAN 
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> All the Best,
>
> BRIAN
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Hi,
>
> UFO and Star Trek used two very different techniques.
>
> In UFO, the individual 35mm film frames exposed by the camera (a Mitchell) shutter were electronically synchronized with the frame refresh of the black and white monitors, so that no banding or picture rolling took place. VERY CLEVER for its time. Synching Colour TV is a whole order of magnitude harder!
>
> Even now there are still problems in TV production when a scene is shown with a live TV in situ, especially now that there are multi-frequency TV's possibly occupying the same scene: 50Hz, 100, and higher... With most TV production cameras now in HD, there is a multiplying/division factor which has to be taken into account. Worse, in other countries the TV scan frequencies and frames do not exactly multiply/divide and in some cases fudged, or whole scan lines excised.
>
> You may have a situation in a scene where an older 50Hz TV picture or even computer monitor is exactly synch'd to the scene (no rolling or banding, but a higher rate TV is out, or more likely now the other way round.
>
> Star Trek production 'faked' active colour screens (such as the main viewer) using a matte, where at the time of film transfer, the filmed scene (i.e. The Enterprise bridge) had the main viewer display optically merged at the time of transfer, giving the effect of a 'live feed main viewer' when inactual fact there was probably just a blank wall there for the actors to marvel at.
>
> According to the Star Trek production information I have, there wasn't much 'colour keying (blue or green screen)' used in Star Trek at all... it was nearly ALL matte work.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Griff

>
>
> I hate to nitpick Griff, but blue/greenscreen opticals are also  
> mattes. A matte is a two-part process to obscure one part of the  
> screen whilst the other is exposed, then the mattes are reversed  
> and the second part can be added. This was a post production  
> process using a device called an optical printer.
>
> As you pointed out, Star Trek was shot on 35mm, and 'static mattes'  
> were used to overlay screens where required. Usually they just  
> stuck pictures of galaxies on the walls, as opticals were  
> expensive, so they wouldn't use one unless it was totally  
> necessary. If something needed overlaying, they would sometimes use  
> blue screens for backgrounds. (Green screen is a new technique that  
> only emerged with digital) - Blue was chosen as it was the colour  
> with the fewest skin tones, and so could be isolated  
> photographically. This technique is called a 'travelling matte', as  
> each frame is different. It's a much more complex process that  
> requires four separate rolls of film to be carefully aligned, both  
> in position and time. Even then, it was never perfect and you often  
> got a thick black line round the edges.
>
> The term 'Chroma-Key' is an American buzzword for 'Colour  
> Separation Overlay (CSO)' - and is a process used only by  
> television vision systems and is a completely electronic process,  
> but many people assume it is the same thing. It bears the classic  
> 'buzzline' round edges seen so often in TV such as Doctor Who and  
> Blake's 7.
> Very nasty.
>
> Hope that enlightens.
> Rob
>
> > Star Trek production 'faked' active colour screens (such as the  
> main viewer) using a matte, where at the time of film transfer, the  
> filmed scene (i.e. The Enterprise bridge) had the main viewer  
> display optically merged at the time of transfer, giving the effect  
> of a 'live feed main viewer' when in actual fact there was probably  
> just a blank wall there for the actors to marvel at.
> >
> > According to the Star Trek production information I have, there  
> wasn't much 'colour keying (blue or green screen)' used in Star  
> Trek at all... it was nearly ALL matte work.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Griff
>
>

> To further nitpick their was ONE (and one ONLY) episode of the
> original Star Trek tv series where they used rear projection for the
> main viewscreen, projecting an image from behind the screen allowing
> Kirk to pace in front of it...it proved too much trouble to do again.
>
> It was the premiere episode of the third and final season, "Spock's
> Brain", and the initial episode under the command of everyone's
> favorite Gerry Anderson mucker-upper Fred Freiberger...
>
> Just my 2¢
>
> John
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Rob wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I hate to nitpick Griff, but blue/greenscreen opticals are also
>> mattes. A matte is a two-part process to obscure one part of the
>> screen whilst the other is exposed, then the mattes are reversed
>> and the second part can be added. This was a post production
>> process using a device called an optical printer.
>>
>> As you pointed out, Star Trek was shot on 35mm, and 'static mattes'
>> were used to overlay screens where required. Usually they just
>> stuck pictures of galaxies on the walls, as opticals were
>> expensive, so they wouldn't use one unless it was totally
>> necessary. If something needed overlaying, they would sometimes use
>> blue screens for backgrounds. (Green screen is a new technique that
>> only emerged with digital) - Blue was chosen as it was the colour
>> with the fewest skin tones, and so could be isolated
>> photographically. This technique is called a 'travelling matte', as
>> each frame is different. It's a much more complex process that
>> requires four separate rolls of film to be carefully aligned, both
>> in position and time. Even then, it was never perfect and you often
>> got a thick black line round the edges.
>>
>> The term 'Chroma-Key' is an American buzzword for 'Colour
>> Separation Overlay (CSO)' - and is a process used only by
>> television vision systems and is a completely electronic process,
>> but many people assume it is the same thing. It bears the classic
>> 'buzzline' round edges seen so often in TV such as Doctor Who and
>> Blake's 7.
>> Very nasty.
>>
>> Hope that enlightens.
>> Rob
>>
>>> Star Trek production 'faked' active colour screens (such as the
>> main viewer) using a matte, where at the time of film transfer, the
>> filmed scene (i.e. The Enterprise bridge) had the main viewer
>> display optically merged at the time of transfer, giving the effect
>> of a 'live feed main viewer' when in actual fact there was probably
>> just a blank wall there for the actors to marvel at.
>>>
>>> According to the Star Trek production information I have, there
>> wasn't much 'colour keying (blue or green screen)' used in Star
>> Trek at all... it was nearly ALL matte work.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Griff
>>
>>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
> I hate to nitpick Griff, but blue/greenscreen opticals are also mattes. Amatte is a two-part process to obscure one part of the screen whilst the other is exposed, then the mattes are reversed and the second part can be added. This was a post production process using a device called an optical printer.
>
> As you pointed out, Star Trek was shot on 35mm, and 'static mattes' were used to overlay screens where required. Usually they just stuck pictures ofgalaxies on the walls, as opticals were expensive, so they wouldn't use one unless it was totally necessary. If something needed overlaying, they would sometimes use blue screens for backgrounds. (Green screen is a new technique that only emerged with digital) - Blue was chosen as it was the colourwith the fewest skin tones, and so could be isolated photographically. This technique is called a 'travelling matte', as each frame is different. It's a much more complex process that requires four separate rolls of film to be carefully aligned, both in position and time. Even then, it was never perfect and you often got a thick black line round the edges.
>
> The term 'Chroma-Key' is an American buzzword for 'Colour Separation Overlay (CSO)' - and is a process used only by television vision systems and isa completely electronic process, but many people assume it is the same thing. It bears the classic 'buzzline' round edges seen so often in TV such asDoctor Who and Blake's 7.
> Very nasty.
>
> Hope that enlightens.
> Rob