Why I hate Sub-Smash

i just finished watching this on the new DVD set from England and it
reminded me on just how little I liked this episode. Where to start
with the problems in the story?

1) I can't buy that Ed Straker, an astronaut, would have
claustrophobia. SkyDiver would have a LOT more interior room than most
spacecraft. I would imagine that just strapping on a space suit would
be claustrophobic. I also have a problem that this condition is
mentioned in this one episode and never again. Worse, it really has
very little bearing on the story.

2) Straker says he wants the best crew available on SkyDiver. If
Foster and Barry are so good why are they usually on the moon or
elsewhere?

3) When the sub gets hit by the alien rocket the order is given to
"Flood tanks 1 and 2". Sorry, but you blow tanks to go up and flood
them to go down.

4) Straker gives the order to launch Sky-1 even though they only have
a 10 degree angle. Problem is they actually have a down angle as
shown, not a 10 degree up angle as implied.

5) Straker reassures Chin they will "Get this old tub off the shelf",
but it was never stated they were on a shelf.

6) If you are running out of power wouldn't you turn off the useless
monitors, etc.?

7) When they first announce their condition it's said they have 8
hours of air and power, and that it will take 90 minutes to recycle
the escape tube. Do the math. Five people at 90 minutes is 7.5 hours,
which is 30 minutes air margin assuming no savings in consumption as
people leave. So why the long anguished faces?

8) When Nina first crawls into the crash dive tube (whatever that may
be) it looks as long as the Los Angeles Metrorail system. It sure
looks too big to fit into SkyDiver!

9) Straker and Foster don't check the tube to make sure Nina got out
k, even when they discover she didn't make it to the surface. No one
else on the surface seems to be worried about her, including Foster
when he gets up there.

10) When Chin goes crazy Straker just stands there yelling "Get him
Paul". Wouldn't joining in the brawl have been more productive? That
might have stopped Chin from hitting buttons on the Controls That
Explode in Sparks and Flames When Touched panels.

11) It is mentioned that the crew can't escape through the missile
tubes with SkyDiver on a rocky ledge. Later we learn divers got in
when the sub was blasted lose. Excuse me, but the missiles in all of
my subs pointed UP, not down...

I know it's only television, but these goofs really bug this old
submarine designer!

Oh, would covering poor dead Chin's eyes have been too much to ask?
And did we really need to see Mary Straker screech in this episode as
well??

Bill

Bill, I read your nitpick post with amusement, and I
agree with you with a few exceptions:


> 5) Straker reassures Chin they will "Get this old tub off the shelf",
> but it was never stated they were on a shelf.
>

No but it's SHOWN to be on a shelf and we know they have
forward-facing cameras, so maybe that's reasonable.

> 6) If you are running out of power wouldn't you turn off the useless
> monitors, etc.?
>

Are they running out of power, or just oxygen?


> 10) When Chin goes crazy Straker just stands there yelling "Get him
> Paul". Wouldn't joining in the brawl have been more productive? That
> might have stopped Chin from hitting buttons on the Controls That
> Explode in Sparks and Flames When Touched panels.
>

Heheh! Ed comments on this in the commentary.


> 11) It is mentioned that the crew can't escape through the missile
> tubes with SkyDiver on a rocky ledge. Later we learn divers got in
> when the sub was blasted lose. Excuse me, but the missiles in all of
> my subs pointed UP, not down...
>

Mine as well :) (yep I used to work in the submarine industry ten
years ago, only in IT though) - but remember this is ten years
in the future and the missiles aren't necessarily meant to go
airborne and head over to Moscow. I like to think of them as
'torpedos' - like the 'missiles' in Stingray.


> Oh, would covering poor dead Chin's eyes have been too much to
> ask? And did we really need to see Mary Straker screech in this
> episode as well??
>

The thing I dislike most about this episode is the 'Crazy
Chinaman' scene. It just seems a bit inappropriate.

Having said all this - ALL of the episodes have a number of
flaws and inconsistencies, and some of them a lot more obvious
than the ones you list here (some of which I admit had never
occurred to me!)

Cheers
James

bill_cotter <[hidden email]> wrote:
i just finished watching this on the new DVD set from England and it
reminded me on just how little I liked this episode. Where to start
with the problems in the story?

7) When they first announce their condition it's said they have 8
hours of air and power, and that it will take 90 minutes to recycle
the escape tube. Do the math. Five people at 90 minutes is 7.5 hours,
which is 30 minutes air margin assuming no savings in consumption as
people leave. So why the long anguished faces?


One of the things that I have always considered very illogical is the plan to evacuate the sub. I mean, look at the escape tube, looks like it has plenty of room, cram everyone the first time (maybe if necessary leave Straker to switch the valve to start flooding), but not do it one person at a time! Of course I understand why they didn't do this, otherwise the episode wouldn't have been as interesting as it was! Same thing can be said about the crash dive tube, why only put one person? (OK, maybe this was the appropriate thing to do, since the water would had hit Nina like a hammer, don't want to get several people hurt there, unless there is no other choice).

10) When Chin goes crazy Straker just stands there yelling "Get him
Paul".nbspldn't joining in the brawl have been more productive? That
might have stopped Chin from hitting buttons on the Controls That
Explode Strakerks and Flames When Touched panels.

Regarding Chin... have you watched his fall in slow-motion? Something extremelly weird must had happened down there, since magically his face changes to that of a caucasian person :-). This is very noticeable. Also, when he falls, Straker leans forward to check his heartbeat, you can see that Chin (who is supposed to be dead) helps by moving his arm out of the way! And later during another sequence, after his face has been covered, someone takes the cover off and you can see that the actor pretty quickly opens his eyes, which by the way are now pointing in a different position to that when he had ust died!


As to Straker's claustrophobia that you mentioned earlier, well, who knows, maybe something happened to Straker years later after his astronaut gig that left him with that condition!

Also, what exactly where they running out of? Just air or oxygen? I think it would had been more appropriate to mention oxygen, since runnning out of air could had meant air escaping (or the pressure dropping). By the way, it would had been very important to be monitoring CO2, and I don't remember seen a gage for this!

I know it's only television, but these goofs really bug this old
submarine designer!

Despite all of its flaws, this is still one of my favorite episodes (for the atmosphere full of anxiety and helplessness), so I don't agree with you here :-).

David Levine





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why I hate Sub-Smash;
Not really hate, just one of the weaker storylines.

I agree with those that have posted prior. As a former [Navy SEAL], subs in
general have an evacuation procedure and several exit points.
We in what appears to be the same size "Escape Tube' had 4 men in there and
there were controls to flood the tube from the inside. Hence, even with two
or three in there and having the controls, the people in Diver would just
have to "Dry the tube". Then themselves get in and flood and go. Most likely
only two or three cycles and everyone is out. Now realizing that after they
exit, they have to close the hatch to allow others to follow.

More importantly, what was the depth that Diver went down. Even resting on
the shelf, and with the scuba tanks. The lenght of time to reach the surface
without blowing your lungs and getting the bends is a REAL risk. Albatross
didn't even appear to have a de-compression tube.

Even with the lack of air, the scuba tanks would have supplied them with
additional air.

Blowing Diver off the shelf, without doing and structural damage, is almost
impossible. The amount of pressure, even at a minimal depth will cause
damage to any structure. If there was enough bouyancy to keep diver afloat
after blowing it off the shelf, then there would have been enough to keep it
from sinking in the first place.

OK, OK, OK. Just my thoughts.
Steve Christensen




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--- bill_cotter wrote:
> i just finished watching this on the new DVD set from
> England and it reminded me on just how little I liked
> this episode. Where to start with the problems in the
> story?
>
> 1) to 11)

Bill, I agree with your objections about the problems in this episode
(there are a lot of problems in considerable all eps and not only in
this series :-) but nevertheless I like this episode because of its
dramatic mood (even when you have to turn a blind eye about the
errors) therefore it's one I like the most. But I understand your
view, I know this from other movies or series respectively.

> And did we really need to see Mary Straker screech in this
> episode as well??

Yes we did. After all Mary was an important part in Strakers life,
especially on the accident with their son. I know that there are a
lot of fans who dislike or even hate Mary for her hysterical
reactions (me too) but nevertheless it was Straker who loved her (or
maybe still loves her) and one has to accept it this way because it's
*Strakers* life and *his* heart decided to love this woman and not
another sort of person like Gay Ellis e.g. And I think he saw
screeching Mary in his "last moments" because he thought that this
was one point in his life where he failed miserably. And Straker is a
skeptic and a perfectionist, IMO.

Just my 2 Cents :-)

Christian

bill_cotter wrote:
"I just finished watching this on the new DVD set from England and it reminded me on just how little I liked this episode. Where to start with the problems in the story?
1) I can't buy that Ed Straker, an astronaut, would have
claustrophobia. SkyDiver would have a LOT more interior room than most spacecraft. I would imagine that just strapping on a space suit would be claustrophobic. I also have a problem that this condition is mentioned in this one episode and never again. Worse, it really has very little bearing on the story.
2) Straker says he wants the best crew available on SkyDiver. If Foster and Barry are so good why are they usually on the moon or elsewhere?
[Points 3-11 deleted for brevity]
I know it's only television, but these goofs really bug this old submarine designer!"

This was always one of my favorite episodes but your points were well taken and were essentially right on the mark. The only points I'd differ on were 1 & 2. Perhaps Straker's claustrophobia is limited to submarines. I've been in small planes and jets and felt quite cramped but didn't bat an eye, but when I toured the USS Cod I was getting anxious and I can't imagine being under the sea for months at a time. I got jittery watching CRIMSON TIDE and HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER. I have nothing but respect for submariners since they're doing something I know I couldn't handle.

I'm still waiting for the DVD's to come out on A&E so I can enjoy the show once again, but I have gotten the two paperback books and read them a few months back. Only the best were assigned to the moon, so they would most likely be used in the most critical assingments.

Just my humble opinion....I really enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for sharing your comments.

Bill


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SHADO@y..., "bill_cotter" <bcotter@s...> wrote:

> I know it's only television, but these goofs really bug this old
> submarine designer!

I tend to get bugged by such things myself but, in all fairness, I
have to confess that Skydiver has always been one of my favorite
Anderson-show vehicles. Admittedly the interior set is *the* pits,
but the overall concept always appealed to me.

And it makes a heck of a lot more sense than, say, Thunderbird-1
(which always struck me as being a lot of work and effort devoted to
simply getting Scott Tracy to some place where he could sit around
with Mobile Control and make Virgil's life miserable).

("Now Virgil . . . you see that exploding volcano over there? Here's
what I want you to do while I sit back and have a cold one.")

Michael

"phydeaux44" wrote:
Why don't you like the Skydiver interior .. ? I think it looks
really quite impressive myself .. admittedly the elevator
platform thing seems a bit impractical, but the padded walls and
the bulkheads look really solid.

The only thing I don't like, and they aren't something you see
often, are the 1970s plastic office chairs ..

James Gibbon wrote:

>Why don't you like the Skydiver interior .. ? I think it looks
>really quite impressive myself .. admittedly the elevator
>platform thing seems a bit impractical, but the padded walls and
>the bulkheads look really solid.
>
>The only thing I don't like, and they aren't something you see
>often, are the 1970s plastic office chairs ..


It's a personal esthetic thing with me. Admittedly Skydiver is designed as
a "minisub", so one has to make allowances, but I've always felt the overall
interior arrangement always left a little something to be desired (I
complain a lot about this sort of thing: the control room sets on seaQuest,
Battlestar: Galactica and Star Trek: Voyager, among others, also rated
thumbs down from me). Of course I just finished reading Tom Clancy's
Submarine, and it doesn't sound as if contemporary realistic sub interiors
are designed that much better (or more comfortably).

It's not really a big thing with me. I just think Skydiver looks better on
the outside than on the inside. :-)

Michael





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bill_cotter wrote:
"I just finished watching this on the new DVD set from England and it
reminded me on just how little I liked this episode. Where to start
with the problems in the story? 1) I can't buy that Ed Straker, an
astronaut, would have claustrophobia. SkyDiver would have a LOT more
interior room than most spacecraft. I would imagine that just
strapping on a space suit would be claustrophobic.

I'm claustrophobic. But I can fly, and wetsuits and snorkles/tanks don't
bother me. And I think being in a spacecraft would be exciting...but they have
windows I can look out of, and that's what I require. My cubicle at work was
supposed to have 5'6" walls...and six feet of it was replaced with a 4' high
counter...I'm still 'hidden', but I can see out. I've been on a sub, a long time
ago, and they don't have windows to see out of, as I recall....that's what
triggers my claustrophobia...not being able to see out....

And I liked Sub-Smash...but then, I related to the claustrophobe...oh, yeah,
did I....

TAE