Why is SHADO entirely defensive?

Question to the esteemed group:

Why is SHADO entirely defensive? Why not take the fight to the
enemy? Why not make them wish they had never heard of Earth?
Perhaps they already do. But the simple fact is that no one has had
the courage to take the fight to the enemy. I am surprised that
Straker and Freeman, especially Freeman, didn't lobby for it. That
is so much in his character, as it would be Straker's.

Has anyone written any fan fiction on this topic? Hmmmm, I think I
will try my hand at a little short story: OPERATION OMEGA!

Hugs,
Tasha :-)

Maybe it's because they have no idea where they come from! Remember that when they sent the spy probe to their planet all was turned into a puzzle about microphotography....
But there is another chance...
what if the aliens have a base in, let's say one of the Jupiter moons, likeGanymede?
This will be really a suitable place to attack...
Osvaldo

--- In [hidden email], "Natasha Bell" <crazygrrl@b...> wrote:
> Question to the esteemed group:
>
> Why is SHADO entirely defensive?

Supreme
Headquarters
Alien
DEFENSE
Organization

SHADO was created to defend Earth against alien invasion, not to
invade alien worlds.

Stuart,

The best defense is a good offense. The best way to defend against attack is to go on the offensive.

Tasha

Natasha Bell wrote:

> The best defense is a good offense. The best way to defend
> against attack is to go on the offensive.
>

That depends on the situation, really. UFO attacks against Earth
are fairly limited - we are primarily their prey, not their enemy.
If we start lobbing weapons at them on their own planet and become
a threat that would most likely change.

In any case, the intelligence-gathering exercise required to
identify viable targets on the Alien homeworld would be
extraordinarily difficult at that distance, and so would any
offensive mission.

Remember that it might be home to many different species,
civilisations and cultures, just as Earth is, and many of its
inhabitants might have nothing whatever to do with attacks against
Earth.

>The best defense is a good offense. The best way to defend
>against attack is to go on the offensive.

Well, we were seeing SHADO in its beginnings -- they started
with something affordable, which was defense. Even when
Straker started to go on the offensive (CLOSE UP), he
ran up against objections over the high cost. Sure, it's
nice to say that going on the offense is the best strategy,
but who's going to pay the trillion dollar bill???

Marc

Tasha , i think the reason it was defensive is because it was so expensive
just getting a probe out there to follow the UFO to its home base. If Straker
had unlimited funds he would have had fleets of ships follow the probe and
blast the aliens as they lifted from the surface of their planet. Destroying the
entire planet might be killing innocent aliens who had no idea the organs
were coming from Earth. It would be like if we killed all Iranians and
Iraqies(sp) just because of Saddam. Just my opinion. Scott


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--- In [hidden email], bslwrsf@a... wrote:
> Tasha , i think the reason it was defensive is because it was so
expensive
> just getting a probe out there to follow the UFO to its home
base. If Straker
> had unlimited funds he would have had fleets of ships follow the
probe and
> blast the aliens as they lifted from the surface of their planet.
Destroying the
> entire planet might be killing innocent aliens who had no idea
the organs
> were coming from Earth. It would be like if we killed all
Iranians and
> Iraqies(sp) just because of Saddam. Just my opinion. Scott
>
>
>

Expensive? War is always expensive! "Innocent Aliens" What?
Killing everyone in Iraq or Iran because of a madman sounds very
much like what Bin Laden wants to do to all Christians.

The Aliens have a choice; made the choice; now have to live and die
by the choice. Resources and cost are immaterial when it comes to
the welfare of the species and planet.

I say. Go Straker!! Just that a single probe failed. And some of
you folks want to throw in the towel and call it a day. *shakes
head, pounds fist on the table, stomps foot (if not to hard -
wearing heels)* I say launch an entire fleet of probes and start
working on biological weapons which would devestate the enemy.

N. Bell, Ph.D
SHADO Bioweapons research team leader

hee hee hee :-)

"Natasha Bell" wrote:

> Expensive? War is always expensive! "Innocent Aliens" What?
> Killing everyone in Iraq or Iran because of a madman sounds very
> much like what Bin Laden wants to do to all Christians.
>

Bullshit!

If the aliens have a base on Ganymede it would be a suitable place to attack
but it would be like them attacking Moonbase. It would do damage but not
carry the war to their home planet like they have ours. Sort of the same mistake
the Japanese made December 7th, 1941. A war is not won with one attack on a
distance military outpost.

James K.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A Trillion dollars. What price do we put on our freedom. Eh the freedom not
to become a planet of free range organ transplants that is. Tasha quoted the
often quoted "The best defense is a good offense." There is a old quote from
the Roman Empire that goes "If you want peace be prepared for war." The
quote is very telling as when the Romans stopped wanting to play the high cost of
fighting their enemies their Empire fell. So when Henderson don't want to
pay the cost he is like one of those comfortable fat old Roman Senators tell the
commander of the Legions , Straker(well he has the haircut for it<g>) that
it cost too much to fight the enemys on their home planet.

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>A Trillion dollars. What price do we put on our freedom.

Well, I'm sure that Straker would agree with you. But Henderson would not!
He even said in one of the episodes that SHADO's capabilities appeared
adequate, while Straker argued that we needed to be ready for larger
attacks.

That's one of the things that made UFO interesting, is that Straker didn't
have a "blank check". He had to fight to keep SHADO going, fight for money
for expansion. You didn't see that on any other Sci-Fi show of the time.

Marc

"Natasha Bell" wrote:

> I say. Go Straker!! Just that a single probe failed. And some of
> you folks want to throw in the towel and call it a day. *shakes
> head, pounds fist on the table, stomps foot (if not to hard -
> wearing heels)* I say launch an entire fleet of probes and start
> working on biological weapons which would devestate the enemy.
>

So Natasha - how do you propose to ensure that your devastating
biological weapons will be targetted at the military assets of
the Alien civilisation responsible, with a minimum of collateral
damage?

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Gibbon" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Why is SHADO entirely defensive?


> "Natasha Bell" wrote:
>
> > Expensive? War is always expensive! "Innocent Aliens" What?
> > Killing everyone in Iraq or Iran because of a madman sounds very
> > much like what Bin Laden wants to do to all Christians.

--------------------------------------------------------

Hey Tash;

Bringing up the War on Terror issue might not be a good analogy on this
list, as those of us on this side of the pond have a distinctly different
attitude than the Europeans do.

In just this case of UFO, however, I have to agree with James on this
point - right now, we are just a food source to these guys, if we become an
active hostile threat, they might retaliate with a full scale war, and we
have no idea what their full scale capabilities are against us should we
truly activate them.

At the least, we would need a whole heck of a lot more forward
reconniassance done on their whole homeworld situation than we did with that
pitiful little probe in "Close Up". We're talking about years of
intelligence gathering.

Next, you've got to face the simple and brutal fact that we'd be facing
a star traveling civilization immensely beyond our own capabilities, given
that they routinely make the trip, and we only made it once, in some still
inexplicable way.

It is better for us to deal with them in their "calm" state here on our
own turf, picking off their occasional hunting parties, rather than "awaken
the sleeping dragon" just yet, before we've done enough of the necessary
homework to handle the consequences that would result.

Perhaps that would have been good territory for a follow up season of
the show, had it been continued.

But once you do pick that fight, you'd better be pretty damned prepared
for it, and it's real hard to image our 1980's civilization being able to
handle fighting one that's advanced thousands of years ahead of it....

The biological approach is probably the best over the nuclear.
Transporting thousands of pounds of biological agent over stellar distances
is infinitly preferable to moving thousands of tons of nuclear armaments
that same distance. Bio agents might also be able to be specifically
tailored to hit only the alien species and miss the rest of the planet's
life forms.....

But then, those guys are pretty well advanced medically, they might be
able to antidote it within the first hours after we release it.....After
all, highly advance civilzation beyond our own.....

Looks like you've got your work cut out for you Agent Tashabelle ; )

Dave H.

--- In [hidden email], "davrecon" <davrecon@n...> wrote:

> At the least, we would need a whole heck of a lot more forward
> reconniassance done on their whole homeworld situation than we did
with that
> pitiful little probe in "Close Up". We're talking about years of
> intelligence gathering.

Yes, that is true. And still better than sitting around, doing
nothing, worring what to do next while Alien monsters are harvesting
our organs.


>
> Next, you've got to face the simple and brutal fact that we'd
be facing
> a star traveling civilization immensely beyond our own
capabilities, given
> that they routinely make the trip, and we only made it once, in
some still
> inexplicable way.


That they are coming from beyond the Solar System is all assumption
and speculation actually. I watched "Close-Up" last night as I
couldn't sleep once again. The probe is to follow the Alien craft
all the way back to its origin. Okay, fine. No where did it say
where this origin was.

I speculate that the Aliens do have Starflight capability, but only
in a very limited way... I will post later on the subject once I
think about it some more. But I think what is attacking Earth is
coming actually from within the Solar System. Jupiter and Saturn
have moons that could be considered planets themselves. The
sssumption of an Alien base there is supported by the relatively
short flight duration of the probe and the short time it took to get
the data back to Earth.


>
> It is better for us to deal with them in their "calm" state
here on our
> own turf, picking off their occasional hunting parties, rather
than "awaken
> the sleeping dragon" just yet, before we've done enough of the
necessary
> homework to handle the consequences that would result.


If in fact it is an outpost. Destroying it will end the threat for
the time being. If they are flying in from other starsystems, then
it is more difficult.
>


> The biological approach is probably the best over the nuclear.
> Transporting thousands of pounds of biological agent over stellar
distances
> is infinitly preferable to moving thousands of tons of nuclear
armaments
> that same distance. Bio agents might also be able to be
specifically
> tailored to hit only the alien species and miss the rest of the
planet's
> life forms.....

Sorry, the luxury of being selective is only avalible to those who
have great superiority. Earth is not in a position of superiority
here, with the possible exception of quantative superiority.
However, given the demonstrated superiority in propulsion
demonstrated, the Aliens seem lacking in much else. In fact, I
would speculate that they are perhaps only a decade or more advanced
in fields of weaponary, medicine, etc.


>
> But then, those guys are pretty well advanced medically, they
might be
> able to antidote it within the first hours after we release
it.....After
> all, highly advance civilzation beyond our own.....


If they were so advanced medically, they would have been able to
cure what is wrong with them. Through cloning, medicines, or other
means. This would have been far less risky than organ harvasting on
a species that is known for violence and bad tempers.


>
> Looks like you've got your work cut out for you Agent
Tashabelle ; )


Thanks Dave... I will keep working on it ;-)


James,

Specifically to your post about collateral damage. Sorry, when the
safty of the species is at stake - it doesn't apply. If it is me or
them - I choose me. If it is James, Dave, or any one else on the
planet that is Human against an Alien - the alien will loose every
time. If it means wiping out their entire species, much like the
Xindi are trying to do with Earth on Enterprise, I will be the first
proponent for genocide, as it is cosmic Darwanism.

Hugs,
Tasha :-)

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@u...> wrote:
> >A Trillion dollars. What price do we put on our freedom.
>
> Well, I'm sure that Straker would agree with you. But Henderson
would not!
>> Marc

Marc,

That is exactly why I have demoted Henderson to the rank of Private
and have personally assumed his position. BTW: Taxes are going up I
should add to pay for my expenditures!!!

hee hee hee!!! :-)
Tasha

"Natasha Bell" wrote:

> James,
>
> Specifically to your post about collateral damage. Sorry, when the
> safty of the species is at stake - it doesn't apply. If it is me or
> them - I choose me. If it is James, Dave, or any one else on the
> planet that is Human against an Alien - the alien will loose every
> time. If it means wiping out their entire species, much like the
> Xindi are trying to do with Earth on Enterprise, I will be the first
> proponent for genocide, as it is cosmic Darwanism.


Sorry - that's contemptible.

You just can't fight a clean war. It would be very nice if you could but in
the real world or the world of fiction innocents get killed. If you could
fight a clean war it would just make them last longer. Nice clean antiseptic why
end it then. The making of weapons is good for business, good for
employment, etc. But if you make war as unpleasant as possible it will be other
sooner. There was a very good episode of Star Trek called A Taste of Armageddon
where to planets have been at war for 500 years. The reason is it was all too
clean and neat. Computers calulated the effectiveness of attack that doesn't
actually take place and people are picked at random to report to stations where
they are vaporised. It they don't the planets will be forced to use real
weapons and see real death and destruction. When Kirk destroys the devices and
the possiblity of this non clean war looms the planet make peace fast. A bit
of a fable but a good point made which is no one likes to see dead people and
suffering particular if they might be next.

James K.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], SumitonJD@a... wrote:
> You just can't fight a clean war. It would be very nice if you
could but in
> the real world or the world of fiction innocents get killed. >
sooner. There was a very good episode of Star Trek called A Taste
of Armageddon
>
Computers calulated the effectiveness of attack that doesn't
> actually take place and people are picked at random to report to
stations where
> they are vaporised. It they don't the planets will be forced to
use real
> weapons and see real death and destruction.
>
> James K.


Hi James,

I have seen this episode. Why do computers explode when someone
shoots a beam weapon at them? I have to agree with you. It is
impossible to fight a totally clean war. There will be casualties
one way or another. The only question is that of magnitude. Will
you completely level a city? Or only certain portions of it?

In the context of UFO however, we do not have the technological
superiority to be as flexible as to perform surgical strikes against
military infrastructure. We do have the technology to vaporize the
surface of the planet however, or to burn-off it's atmosphere.

Where has it ever been established that there is a diffrence in the
Alien society between military and civilian? They could be more or
less like the Borg in the extreme, or closer to the Klingons where
everyone is in the military.

hmmmmm....

What is REALLY contemptable is General Henderson not giving Straker
the means to do more research considering the grave situation.

--- Each and every time the Aliens "harvest" an organ, it is not
only a violation of that particular person - but of the whole human
species. ---

One needs to think about that in such a context.

Tasha

[hidden email] wrote:
> You just can't fight a clean war. It would be very nice if you
> could but in the real world or the world of fiction innocents get
> killed.

I appreciate that. But there's a difference between civilian
casualties incurred while targeting military assets and
indiscriminate, wholesale genocidal slaughter.

I appreciate that, in the UFO scenario, humans are the victims in a
war which they did not ask for, but that would nonetheless be an
overreaction, and quite probably in my view a counterproductive
one.