confetti check aok

I saw it as a whirlwind courtship, and I think you hit the nail on the head Pam.

I didn't know Rutland was at the wedding either, that adds a whole new dynamic to the mix.

I do believe that their love was real, and I'll go out on a limb here, I think there was still love between them even in the episode Q of P. Many people will disagree with me, on this point as they believe Ed was being submissive, but I saw something different. When John was lying in the ditch, Mary didn't turn to her husband, which you would normaly expect, she turned to Ed to do something. Did she trust Ed to be able to do the right thing more than Rutland? There is a fine line between love and hate, and this might explain some of her actions after the divorce as well as her reaction at the hospital when John dies.

Mary was responsible for her son's death, she sent Ed away before John could show him the boat, and she failed to stop John from running into the street. And even though she blames Ed, she has to know deep down inside that the mistake was hers, and hers alone. Hmm future storyline. *grin*

Matt :)

> So what did Ed see in Mary and why did he opt to propose marriage? Was it a case of their hormones having party hats on? Other than her looks, Mary doesn't seem to present much that is attractive about herself - certainly not her personality.
>
> Pam the Canuck
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Boy I must have missed alot in both eps because I didn't realize Ed and Mary stayed together at all after Johnnie's birth! I agree with Deb that Mary's idea of what she was going to get from her marriage was completely different from Ed's, and of course his getting the green light to go ahead with SHADO was quite the monkey-wrench. Even if SHADO's creation hadn't intervened in their life, I don't see the marriage making it for the long haul - they were too divergent in personality and expectations. Ed seemed to be frustrated with Mary at various points in CCAOK and he had too much on his mind to be able to contend with her jealousies and stupidities. SHADO was the lifeline to save the world from the aliens - Mary was just one more overwrought housewife who couldn't properly think for herself. You can kind of see which one would get Straker's FULL attention here. Pam the Canuck


   
  My own take (worth about a nickel in today's market) is that Mary fell in
  love with the idea of a guy in uniform. She was thinking there'd be travel,
  maybe moving to the States. And none of that happened. But according to
  Barwick's script, the marriage broke up three years before which means they
  stayed together for five years after Johnny was born.

  As for Ed, all I can guess is those hormones really were having a party.
  *grin*. I can't honestly see him marrying her if he'd actually known her.
  Sticking with her after he'd made his vows I can see. But then they do say
  that love is blind (and also stupid at times.)

  _____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When you see them together, you CAN see chemistry. It's like Ed becomes a
whole different person when he's around her and has a chance to relax. It's
marvelous to watch (I've been going through the eps to get my new frame caps
and it's really interesting to watch really closely. There are incredible
nuances and the way some scenes come together is marvelous. The death of
Roper's wife, for instance - all her terror and the camera focuses on just
her hand. That is ART.)

And not everyone hates Mary.*grin* In fact I know one person who claims that
Alec is at fault for the whole thing - Ed not being able to come up with a
good cover story and hauling him away when there was probably no need. LOL

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 

> I wonder if it was hard for Suzanne Neve to play such an awful character?

Evidently I'm in the minority here, since I didn't think Mary Straker was
awful at all...
I think some of our list members might be a bit unsympathetic, or have lived

charmed lives where everything goes according to plan. :-)

But as for whether it was hard for her to play Mary Straker, all you need to
do
is watch the the 1960s mini-series "The Portrait of a Lady", which features
Ed
Bishop and Suzanne Neve, and the scenes they have together seem almost like
a rehash of CONFETTI CHECK A-OK (except that this mini-series was filmed
before UFO).

Marc





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wouldn't call her awful. *grin* I saw both Mary and Ed as victims of circumstance. They very well could have had a happy marriage had it not been for,

1. SHADO
2. Mary's evil mother.

Watching the episode just recently, I did feel bad for both of them. I think one of the reasons that people get so down on Mary is due to the way she treated Ed at the hospital when John died. And the fact that the accident was Mary's responsibility compouds the error imo. :)


> Evidently I'm in the minority here, since I didn't think Mary Straker was awful at all...
> I think some of our list members might be a bit unsympathetic, or have lived
> charmed lives where everything goes according to plan.  :-)

maybe she was a knit-wit and he saved her live or something romantic. it seems ludicrous, but there could have been family commitments involved. henderson didnt seem to like her.
probably for the same reason most of us dont.
jim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Both Matt and Deb have such totally bang on comments! I have to agree with you guys. I also felt what Matt said about Mary having a large role to play in Johnnie's death was right on too. I'm not sure I can blame Alec alot for what happened in Q of P because if I recall correctly, Ed never tells Alec WHY he wanted to have the transport coming back from the US to come to England immediately. He seems powerless to stop Alec from diverting the aircraft to Ireland in the end. Was he feeling guilty about using SHADO resources for personal reasons?

The other thing too is that many UFO script writers DID leave big holes in their plots and I wonder how much thought they put into things at times. That's why I often say that with only 26 eps and many confusions and contradictions, the show doesn't have that much canon. I also wonder if from writer to writer if any of them checked out the other scripts or eps enough to know they might BE making mistakes or confusing things with what had happened in other stories. Continuity has been a big problem with the show at times. Look at Doug Jackson - Alec Freeman doesn't want to shake hands with him as he doesn't like to touch anything slimy - but he seems to tolerate him ok in other esps.

Pam the Canuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i think that alec said the mobiles would be there in minutes, implying that the transport was already on the ground, ed was powerless to do anything except to order it to immediately lift off for london after they were disembarked. sometimes a commander cannot burden his subordinates with his own personal details. there was nothing that could be done, so straker kept it to himself.
jim

--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Pam McCaughey <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Pam McCaughey <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 5:01 PM


 



Both Matt and Deb have such totally bang on comments! I have to agree with you guys. I also felt what Matt said about Mary having a large role to play in Johnnie's death was right on too. I'm not sure I can blame Alec alot for what happened in Q of P because if I recall correctly, Ed never tells Alec WHY he wanted to have the transport coming back from the US to come to England immediately. He seems powerless to stop Alec from diverting the aircraft to Ireland in the end. Was he feeling guilty about using SHADO resources for personal reasons?

The other thing too is that many UFO script writers DID leave big holes in their plots and I wonder how much thought they put into things at times. That's why I often say that with only 26 eps and many confusions and contradictions, the show doesn't have that much canon. I also wonder if from writer to writer if any of them checked out the other scripts or eps enough to know they might BE making mistakes or confusing things with what had happened in other stories. Continuity has been a big problem with the show at times. Look at Doug Jackson - Alec Freeman doesn't want to shake hands with him as he doesn't like to touch anything slimy - but he seems to tolerate him ok in other esps.

Pam the Canuck

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For me, its like this.
Did she know she was marrying someone in military intelligence?  I am sure she did.  I am sure he gave her the Michael Corleone speech, ‘You cant ask me about my business’.
In the movie, Tora Tora Tora, one of the main characters was in military intelligence and was privy to the secret Japanese intercepts.  At one time, you see his wife driving him around Washington.  His wife realizing something big is going on, and asks her husband. Her husband just doesn’t answer and she gets the message.  Now can Mary be the type of wife who can handle that type of life? evidently not.
In the same movie, they showed that at one time, they stopped showing the President, their commander in chief, the intelligence.  That shows how strict security can be.  The reason they stopped? They found a intercept thrown out in the garbage.  So the president has his garbage searched. Kind of funny, if you think about it
In a Question of priorities, when their son got hurt, he was told there was this experimental medicine that might save his son available in the United States.  Now if Mary really believed that Ed was just a head of a film studio now, Ed can still make a phone call and have the medicine specially delivered on a military transport.
Now was Ed’s mistake that he tried to make Mary understand why their was a delay in the delivery of medicine?  Or would Mary have hated him for making another promise and breaking it.  Would seeing Ed remind Mary of her loss?  Is that why she cries she never wants to see him again?  or she just hates him for not saving their son?  Probably the latter.
Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good points Bruce, I just saw Tora, Tora, Tora again a few weeks ago and know the scene that you are refering too. Love the analogue with The Godfather, very good point.

I'm quite sure that Mary would have felt guilty for her behavior at some point down the road. She lashed out at Ed through grief. I have to believe that at eventully she has to face the situation for what it was.

I don't blame Alec at all, I don't think he knew, and I don't know if Ed ever told him. (He doesn't in my story lines.)

As a writer I find that I look at the show with a much more critical eye than I used to. But I still consider it to be one of the best speculative science fiction shows of all time. :)

The person I was referring to was thinking of what was happening during
CCAOK - as you pointed out, there was no real need for Freeman to take
Straker away from the hospital and his newborn son. And it was Alec who was
so forceful in reminding Straker about what security would do if they found
out that Straker had told Mary anything but the time of day. So what were
Alec's motives at that time? *grin*.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 

Good points Bruce, I just saw Tora, Tora, Tora again a few weeks ago and
know the scene that you are refering too. Love the analogue with The
Godfather, very good point.

I'm quite sure that Mary would have felt guilty for her behavior at some
point down the road. She lashed out at Ed through grief. I have to believe
that at eventully she has to face the situation for what it was.

I don't blame Alec at all, I don't think he knew, and I don't know if Ed
ever told him. (He doesn't in my story lines.)

As a writer I find that I look at the show with a much more critical eye
than I used to. But I still consider it to be one of the best speculative
science fiction shows of all time. :)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ah, below I was referring to Alec in Q of P. Apples and oranges. *grin*

This is a very good discussion. :)



--- In [hidden email], "D.A. Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:

Well, in CCAOK, Mary refers to Straker's being in Military intelligence as
one of his fatal charms - so yes. She knew.

What is unclear is at what point she honestly thought he'd left that post
and became 'just a businessman'? And that's something not addressed on
screen or in any of the scripts. Maybe there's an interview with Barwick
that sheds some light on it, but if there was, I'm sure Marc would have it
or it would have been mentioned at some point.

I suspect that Barwick simply wanted to show how SHADO had negatively
impacted both Straker's marriage and ultimately led to Johnny's death. It
also leant sympathy for what was originally (apparently) supposed to be a
less than sympathetic character. I mean, deliberately blowing cigarette ash
onto Freeman is a pretty obnoxious act and so is letting Freeman hang,
freaking out over the Westbrook Electronics disaster.

In Identified and in Computer Affair, Straker does come off in places as a
strutting Banty rooster. By the time we get to Flight Path we see a more
'human' side. Although there are some odd 'humanizing' things in Identified,
as well - how he treats Carlin, for instance. (I'm using the A&E DVD order
here.)

But getting back to Mary - I don't think much thought was given to why she
was acting the way she did. The writers had to churn out scripts in a short
time and I doubt Barwick put much more thought into Mary's motivations than
he needed to - writing her as an irrational hysteric may have been an easy
way out.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Bruce Sherman
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 

For me, its like this.
Did she know she was marrying someone in military intelligence? I am sure
she did. I am sure he gave her the Michael Corleone speech, 'You cant ask me
about my business'.
In the movie, Tora Tora Tora, one of the main characters was in military
intelligence and was privy to the secret Japanese intercepts. At one time,
you see his wife driving him around Washington. His wife realizing something
big is going on, and asks her husband. Her husband just doesn't answer and
she gets the message. Now can Mary be the type of wife who can handle that
type of life? evidently not.
In the same movie, they showed that at one time, they stopped showing the
President, their commander in chief, the intelligence. That shows how strict
security can be. The reason they stopped? They found a intercept thrown out
in the garbage. So the president has his garbage searched. Kind of funny, if
you think about it
In a Question of priorities, when their son got hurt, he was told there was
this experimental medicine that might save his son available in the United
States. Now if Mary really believed that Ed was just a head of a film studio
now, Ed can still make a phone call and have the medicine specially
delivered on a military transport.
Now was Ed's mistake that he tried to make Mary understand why their was a
delay in the delivery of medicine? Or would Mary have hated him for making
another promise and breaking it. Would seeing Ed remind Mary of her loss? Is
that why she cries she never wants to see him again? or she just hates him
for not saving their son? Probably the latter.
Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The only other hint was the break the bloody rule comment that Mary made. Was it said before she found out she was pregnant? I'll have to watch CCAOK again. To be honest, seeing Ed and Mary together when she gave him the news you would think they had no problems at all in their marriage. She certainly didn't react like a wife who had been neglected for years. That fact also supports the conclusion that the marriage was still quite young. In the grand scheme we only got a very small glimpse into the dynamics of their relationship.

There is one other possibility that I'm somewhat reluctant to bring up, were we meant to believe that Mary was suffering from bipolar disorder? It might explain why she was unable to deal with Ed's job in MI as well as the highs and lows that she seemed to display. Having a relative who suffers from the particular illness, I can see some similarities in the behaviors.

Matt :)

--- In [hidden email], "D.A. Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:
>
> Well, in CCAOK, Mary refers to Straker's being in Military intelligence as
> one of his fatal charms - so yes. She knew.
>
> What is unclear is at what point she honestly thought he'd left that post
> and became 'just a businessman'? And that's something not addressed on
> screen or in any of the scripts.

Think about this.  In Responsibility Seat, Alec launches Shado assests to go after something that turns out not to be a UFO.  Now he is redfaced trying to explain the money he just spent on a false UFO.

So there is evidently a report that needs to be written on how every dime is spent.

So in a Question of Priorites, Straker orders a Shado asset to fly a small vile of medicine across the Atlantic to save his son.  In the back of his mind, he is thinking about the trouble he will get into, but its his son, so he doesnt care.

So Alec finds out that this Shado assest is already in the air.  He chalks it up to Straker being smart.  Now can Straker tell Alec the real reason?  Could Alec be also in trouble if he knew? Yes. So in Straker being silent, he is protecting Alec, at the possible cost of his son.  I say possible, because #1, perhaps his son could live till he gets the medicine?  or #2 the medicine was experimental, not a cure.  So maybe it wouldnt have made a difference.

Bruce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bi polar disorder was also not diagnosed as thoroughly in 1980 as it is now. so that would make a lot of sense and clear up a lot of issues with this matter. also ed has a rescuer complex and a bi-polar mary would attract him right into a marraige.
good call,
jim

--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Matt <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Matt <[hidden email]>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 6:40 PM


 



The only other hint was the break the bloody rule comment that Mary made. Was it said before she found out she was pregnant? I'll have to watch CCAOK again. To be honest, seeing Ed and Mary together when she gave him the news you would think they had no problems at all in their marriage. She certainly didn't react like a wife who had been neglected for years. That fact also supports the conclusion that the marriage was still quite young. In the grand scheme we only got a very small glimpse into the dynamics of their relationship.

There is one other possibility that I'm somewhat reluctant to bring up, were we meant to believe that Mary was suffering from bipolar disorder? It might explain why she was unable to deal with Ed's job in MI as well as the highs and lows that she seemed to display. Having a relative who suffers from the particular illness, I can see some similarities in the behaviors.

Matt :)

--- In [hidden email], "D.A. Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:
>
> Well, in CCAOK, Mary refers to Straker's being in Military intelligence as
> one of his fatal charms - so yes. She knew.
>
> What is unclear is at what point she honestly thought he'd left that post
> and became 'just a businessman'? And that's something not addressed on
> screen or in any of the scripts.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

im watching ccaok right now again.
straker is being chastized for being married to mary by henderson again.
i guess im back to thinking mary is frankenstien's monster again.
i dont know why it is that she upsets me so. i guess its because she just keeps making all the wrong moves.
jim

--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Bruce Sherman <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Bruce Sherman <[hidden email]>
Subject: [SHADO] Responsibility Seat/Question of Priorites
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 6:46 PM


 



Think about this. In Responsibility Seat, Alec launches Shado assests to go after something that turns out not to be a UFO. Now he is redfaced trying to explain the money he just spent on a false UFO.

So there is evidently a report that needs to be written on how every dime is spent.

So in a Question of Priorites, Straker orders a Shado asset to fly a small vile of medicine across the Atlantic to save his son. In the back of his mind, he is thinking about the trouble he will get into, but its his son, so he doesnt care.

So Alec finds out that this Shado assest is already in the air. He chalks it up to Straker being smart. Now can Straker tell Alec the real reason? Could Alec be also in trouble if he knew? Yes. So in Straker being silent, he is protecting Alec, at the possible cost of his son. I say possible, because #1, perhaps his son could live till he gets the medicine? or #2 the medicine was experimental, not a cure. So maybe it wouldnt have made a difference.

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay, you are just too funny. How bout writing that up in a fanfic??

Y, snickering with glee ...



. wrote:
> i was just watching 'a question of priorities' and figured out why the alien was chased and then shot at and then landed and took over the old blind woman's house and then went out to get zapped for no apparent reason.
> its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his dumba**  ex wife, and when that was accomplished, went out to go get dissintergrated.
> so the aliens arent all bad after all.
> jim



--
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Yuchtar zantai-Klaan | [hidden email]
    I am not a number! I am a FREE FAN!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "An apple a day, keeps the, uh ...
           No, never mind."
                 -- Doctor Who
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.yuchtar.com/

Yeah, but she should not be lashing out at Ed that way when really, it
was more HER fault the boy died than his ...

Y


Marc Martin wrote:
>>its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his dumba**  ex wife
>
>
> Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?
>
> I mean, her child was dying / died.  She *should* be upset.
>
> Marc


--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Yuchtar zantai-Klaan | [hidden email]
    I am not a number! I am a FREE FAN!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "An apple a day, keeps the, uh ...
           No, never mind."
                 -- Doctor Who
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.yuchtar.com/

Okay, well, I think everyone already knows *MY* take on that. Alec is in
love with Straker and deliberately pulls him away in order to break up
the marriage.

Just sayin' .....

;^)

Y


Matt wrote:
> And that leads to the biggest plot hole in the entire episode. What was so important that Alec couldn't have handled it and let Ed stay at the hospital? I don't believe for a second that Straker was the only person that could have handled whatever crisis had arisen. The military doesn't work that way, (at least in the western world) if the commander isn't there, the executive officer takes over.
>


--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Yuchtar zantai-Klaan | [hidden email]
    I am not a number! I am a FREE FAN!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    "An apple a day, keeps the, uh ...
           No, never mind."
                 -- Doctor Who
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.yuchtar.com/

Good comparision. I think Ed's decision to order an early takeoff, based on a personal need might have pushed the envelope a bit, but reversing Alec's order would have been clearly out of bounds, and Straker knew that. It's also possibile that he didn't tell Alec for the reason you mentioned Bruce. It's my belief that Ed never tells him.

You bring up another valid point by mentioning the fact that the drug may not have worked. Was it experimental, or just not availible in the UK? Another thing to check. :)

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote: