script from Sound of Silence

ok, this episode took place in England, not a question.

Fosters love interest makes several comments about American Indians, Sioux Indians maybe hiding out on their farm. Sioux Indians in England??

So I guess you can blame the American writer of the episode.

Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Fosters love interest makes several comments about American Indians,
> Sioux Indians maybe hiding out on their farm. Sioux Indians in England??
>
> So I guess you can blame the American writer of the episode.

She was joking! The episode had British writers, as I recall...

Marc

yes, I recall she was joking perhaps another instance of British writers writing for American audience? Wouldn't a total British story use something similar? I wouldn't think a Brit making a joke about indians sounds right??

Bruce


From: Marc Martin
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:35 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] script from Sound of Silence



> Fosters love interest makes several comments about American Indians,
> Sioux Indians maybe hiding out on their farm. Sioux Indians in England??
>
> So I guess you can blame the American writer of the episode.

She was joking! The episode had British writers, as I recall...

Marc




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think it depends on exactly what was said.... we Brits have a warped sense of humour and there are some phrases that would appear to be very 'off' to foreigners.. but we would understand and accept without a problem.
I'll have to watch the episode again now.. although its certainly not one of my favourites. Unless you want to post the comment!

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:

> I'll have to watch the episode again now.. although its certainly not one
> of my favourites. Unless you want to post the comment!

It's fairly early on, when the brother and sister are riding their horses,
and there a barking dog in the background. Then Russ chases after the hippie
that's camping out on their property.

Marc

I'll watch it tomorrow morning! I couldn't stand Susan Jamieson so thanks for letting me know its early on!


--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

> I'll watch it tomorrow morning! I couldn't stand Susan Jamieson so
> thanks for letting me know its early on!

Ahh, well that's where we differ -- I love her in this episode,
and therefore it is one my favs. :-)

Marc

Hi,

Speaking as a Brit bought up in the sixties in the UK and USA...

I can honestly tell any American or other reader that there was no intention AT ALL to 'joke' about Indians, Native American or otherwise...

In the sixties, certainly when I was glowing up, 'playing' Cowboys and Indians was all the rage, and I, my brothers, and many school friends used to take turns being either Cowboys or Indians. Sometimes the Cowboys won, and sometimes the Indians... remember Roy Rogers, cowboy and indian outfits were really popular (just as you see kids dressed in Spiderman and other superhero uniforms today)...

This may sound very insensitive now, but that's how it was then, and no oneeven realized or discussed how sensitive a subject this should or would be. Cowboy and Indians films were all over the cinema and TV at he time.

I believe there was certainly NO insult or jokes meant to 'Indians' at all (Native Americans, Continental Indians, and certainly no specific tribe...)

Remember, in those days, the general term/word "indian" had no "PC" contextat all, and was - in my experience - never meant in a bad way.

In "The sound of Silence" my guess is that Russell Stone and his sister were used to playing "Cowboys and Indians" in their childhood, and that is what she was referencing and reminiscing in her dialogue. Certainly no 'joke' or insult meant... quite innocent really in context.

Of course times have changed... but you really have to view the episode and script in a 'sixties' context.

Hope this helps,

Griff

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:
>
> ok, this episode took place in England, not a question.
>
> Fosters love interest makes several comments about American Indians, Sioux Indians maybe hiding out on their farm. Sioux Indians in England??
>
> So I guess you can blame the American writer of the episode.
>
> Bruce

ok, if British kids played cowboys and indians because of watching american movies, and if they played those games when they were young, that makes sense

Being European, worrying about trespassers, I thought they would think gypsy's were on their land, and I say that watching old Europeans movies.

I never wanted to say this was a ill joke or political correctness at all. Just seemed odd.

Bruce


From: griffwason
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: script from Sound of Silence



Hi,

Speaking as a Brit bought up in the sixties in the UK and USA...

I can honestly tell any American or other reader that there was no intention AT ALL to 'joke' about Indians, Native American or otherwise...

In the sixties, certainly when I was glowing up, 'playing' Cowboys and Indians was all the rage, and I, my brothers, and many school friends used to take turns being either Cowboys or Indians. Sometimes the Cowboys won, and sometimes the Indians... remember Roy Rogers, cowboy and indian outfits were really popular (just as you see kids dressed in Spiderman and other superhero uniforms today)...

This may sound very insensitive now, but that's how it was then, and no one even realized or discussed how sensitive a subject this should or would be. Cowboy and Indians films were all over the cinema and TV at he time.

I believe there was certainly NO insult or jokes meant to 'Indians' at all (Native Americans, Continental Indians, and certainly no specific tribe...)

Remember, in those days, the general term/word "indian" had no "PC" context at all, and was - in my experience - never meant in a bad way.

In "The sound of Silence" my guess is that Russell Stone and his sister were used to playing "Cowboys and Indians" in their childhood, and that is what she was referencing and reminiscing in her dialogue. Certainly no 'joke' or insult meant... quite innocent really in context.

Of course times have changed... but you really have to view the episode and script in a 'sixties' context.

Hope this helps,

Griff

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:
>
> ok, this episode took place in England, not a question.
>
> Fosters love interest makes several comments about American Indians, Sioux Indians maybe hiding out on their farm. Sioux Indians in England??
>
> So I guess you can blame the American writer of the episode.
>
> Bruce





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

It's interesting that you bring up the subject of "Gypsies", as when I was a child in the UK, being called a "Gypsie" was a very derogatory term. Today (I believe) there are two camps:

True Gypsies (Western and Middle-Eastern travellers, Gypsie is a shortened form of Egyptian, as they were 'forced' out of their country, and traveled wherever they could, and were welcome seeking work and a place to be...) These folks prefer to disassociate themselves from:

Travellers... people "out of the system" who travel around in groups, and stay for short times on common land. Their reception is mixed in the UK, although they are recognised, and able to use public services to varying degrees. I have made a GROSS simplification about both parties, but I think you get the idea.

Griff

--- In [hidden email], "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@...> wrote:
>
> ok, if British kids played cowboys and indians because of watching american movies, and if they played those games when they were young, that makes sense
>
> Being European, worrying about trespassers, I thought they would think gypsy's were on their land, and I say that watching old Europeans movies.
>
> I never wanted to say this was a ill joke or political correctness at all. Just seemed odd.
>
> Bruce

> > I never wanted to say this was a ill joke or political correctness at all. Just seemed odd.

I think we may be departing from what was actually said in the episode -- Anne
was definitely joking / teasing her brother when he was concerned about
hearing noises in the woods. She could have just as easily joked that
there were Aliens hiding in the woods... :-)

Marc

Hi,

I have to admit that I also think that Susan Jameson is really great in this episode... she's really believable and a very natural actor, I've seen her many times on stage - one of those actors you can forget is acting - if you know what I mean :)

She's still going strong and is on many current UK TV programs.

Griff

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > I'll watch it tomorrow morning! I couldn't stand Susan Jamieson so
> > thanks for letting me know its early on!
>
> Ahh, well that's where we differ -- I love her in this episode,
> and therefore it is one my favs. :-)
>
> Marc
>

true, but before Griff posted what he said. The idea of indians hiding out in the woods on a horse farm in England seemed a little off the wall

Bruce


From: Marc Martin
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:59 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: script from Sound of Silence



> > I never wanted to say this was a ill joke or political correctness at all. Just seemed odd.

I think we may be departing from what was actually said in the episode -- Anne
was definitely joking / teasing her brother when he was concerned about
hearing noises in the woods. She could have just as easily joked that
there were Aliens hiding in the woods... :-)

Marc




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:43:01 -0400
"Bruce Sherman" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> yes, I recall she was joking perhaps another instance of British
> writers writing for American audience? Wouldn't a total British
> story use something similar? I wouldn't think a Brit making a
> joke about indians sounds right??
>

Actually, when I was a kid, around the time that episode was made,
"Western" films and TV series were shown on TV all the time. Believe
it or not, in the suburban Middle England of the late 1960s and
early 1970s, English children were often to be found playing "Cowboys
and Indians", often wearing dress appropriate to their chosen role.

I certainly had a gunbelt with six-shooter and a cowboy hat, and I'm
pretty sure one of my brothers had an Indian head-dress with feathers
in it.

I used to love The Virginian and Bonanza.

James

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 20:27:58 -0000
"griffwason" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ha! I see your childhood was similar to mine, Griff.

We also used to play British Army vs Germans in our back garden.

I can remember playing it on holiday on Spain once - the beach
seemed to present an ideal opportunity to re-enact D-Day. But my
Dad made us stop, because the beach was full of Germans. In our
version of D-Day, fortunately they were only sitting around on
beach towels.

James

Personally I always found something rather uncomfortable about this episode, namely the relationship between the Susan Jameson character and her "brother"; it seemed a little inappropriate, particularly when she suggested that they shouyld go swimming nude together! I'm surprised that the Mary Whitehouse brigade didn't pick up on that.

--- On Thu, 15/4/10, Bruce Sherman <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Bruce Sherman <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: script from Sound of Silence
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, 15 April, 2010, 21:38


 



ok, if British kids played cowboys and indians because of watching americanmovies, and if they played those games when they were young, that makes sense

Being European, worrying about trespassers, I thought they would think gypsy's were on their land, and I say that watching old Europeans movies.

I never wanted to say this was a ill joke or political correctness at all. Just seemed odd.

Bruce

From: griffwason
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 PM
To: SHADO@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [SHADO] Re: script from Sound of Silence

Hi,

Speaking as a Brit bought up in the sixties in the UK and USA...

I can honestly tell any American or other reader that there was no intention AT ALL to 'joke' about Indians, Native American or otherwise...

In the sixties, certainly when I was glowing up, 'playing' Cowboys and Indians was all the rage, and I, my brothers, and many school friends used to take turns being either Cowboys or Indians. Sometimes the Cowboys won, and sometimes the Indians... remember Roy Rogers, cowboy and indian outfits werereally popular (just as you see kids dressed in Spiderman and other superhero uniforms today)...

This may sound very insensitive now, but that's how it was then, and no oneeven realized or discussed how sensitive a subject this should or would be. Cowboy and Indians films were all over the cinema and TV at he time.

I believe there was certainly NO insult or jokes meant to 'Indians' at all (Native Americans, Continental Indians, and certainly no specific tribe...)

Remember, in those days, the general term/word "indian" had no "PC" contextat all, and was - in my experience - never meant in a bad way.

In "The sound of Silence" my guess is that Russell Stone and his sister were used to playing "Cowboys and Indians" in their childhood, and that is what she was referencing and reminiscing in her dialogue. Certainly no 'joke' or insult meant... quite innocent really in context.

Of course times have changed... but you really have to view the episode andscript in a 'sixties' context.

Hope this helps,

Griff

--- In SHADO@yahoogroups. com, "Bruce Sherman" <brucesherman@ ...> wrote:
>
> ok, this episode took place in England, not a question.
>
> Fosters love interest makes several comments about American Indians, Sioux Indians maybe hiding out on their farm. Sioux Indians in England??
>
> So I guess you can blame the American writer of the episode.
>
> Bruce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Personally I always found something rather uncomfortable about this
> episode, namely the relationship between the Susan Jameson character and
> her "brother"; it seemed a little inappropriate, particularly when she
> suggested that they shouyld go swimming nude together

Well, the brother did say it was a stupid idea... :-)

Marc