confetti check aok

the housten astrodome the 8th wonder of the world was concieved in less that 2 years, built in six months ahead of schedule in 4 years.
it was build right in the middle of a huge texas town.
this building was much bigger than shado and more dirt than a few million cubic feet was moved.
it was completed and open to the public in 1965.
that is 20 years before shado. imagine the progress made in construction and covert operations since then.
i propose that it could very well be done and in the time hinted at.
and also that john , ed starker's son wasnt anymore than 7 or 8 old. unless there is screen cannon with how old he was when he died, he passes for that age according to the class photos i glanced thru when i went thru my school pics of my youth.
so all this controversy has to get much narrower in focus about why it could not have been done in the outside edge of 8 years suggested.
moving the earth covertly was no problem.
construction and cement forming was no problem.
work teams in rotation until the forms were dried and the multi floor above earth building, again no problem.
john straker being young or old enough [unless again there is screen cannon of his age] is no problem.
the only problem that i have seen so far in rewatching both episodes, one a tv movie, and the other confetti check- a-ok, is that the time jump forewards is TOO accurate. the colors the clothes even paul foster's girlfriend showering to music that could easily been some newwave punk band is just too close. super jets a ok. wierd hair femmie blonde die jobs a ok. pretentious shakespearian quips-a ok.
do a time magazine pic check from 1978-1980 and you will see what i mean.
jim

 
from 1968-1973 the russian space program left almost 24 tons of metal tubes, fuel bins, landing craft and radio equipment on the dark side of the moon, with no public release of information to the rest of the world.
thats about 15 school buses and 9 cars. more than enough for moon base from our favorite show to be completed, if you use the comparasome of launches, secrecy and materials left.
jim
 
also space junk was a major concern in the early to mid 1980's. even devo did a song about being killed by space junk. but at the time of the show, there was no concern at all, just wild eyed prophets proclaiming in several decades that it might become a problem, while critics dismissed them as uninformed radicals. everyone knew that space junk would fall to earth and burn up and land in the ocean and sink.
but U.F.O. did an episode on the dramatic effect that space junk would have in the early 1980's. and that spy satilites would hide in it. a noteworthy plan that the chinese were accused of in the late 1990's of doing.
 
 
 
 


--- On Mon, 6/20/11, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: [SHADO] confetti check aok
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, June 20, 2011, 7:29 PM


 



the housten astrodome the 8th wonder of the world was concieved in less that 2 years, built in six months ahead of schedule in 4 years.
it was build right in the middle of a huge texas town.
this building was much bigger than shado and more dirt than a few million cubic feet was moved.
it was completed and open to the public in 1965.
that is 20 years before shado. imagine the progress made in construction and covert operations since then.
i propose that it could very well be done and in the time hinted at.
and also that john , ed starker's son wasnt anymore than 7 or 8 old. unless there is screen cannon with how old he was when he died, he passes for that age according to the class photos i glanced thru when i went thru my school pics of my youth.
so all this controversy has to get much narrower in focus about why it could not have been done in the outside edge of 8 years suggested.
moving the earth covertly was no problem.
construction and cement forming was no problem.
work teams in rotation until the forms were dried and the multi floor above earth building, again no problem.
john straker being young or old enough [unless again there is screen cannon of his age] is no problem.
the only problem that i have seen so far in rewatching both episodes, one a tv movie, and the other confetti check- a-ok, is that the time jump forewards is TOO accurate. the colors the clothes even paul foster's girlfriend showering to music that could easily been some newwave punk band is just too close. super jets a ok. wierd hair femmie blonde die jobs a ok. pretentious shakespearian quips-a ok.
do a time magazine pic check from 1978-1980 and you will see what i mean.
jim








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There's nothing on screen that gives an age for Johnny. The script on Marc's
site gives an age of 8, but also says that  "STRAKER AND THE BOY'S MOTHER
WERE DIVORCED THREE YEARS AGO,"
That would indicate that the writer, Tony Barwick, had intended for Straker
and Mary to be reconciled after Johnny's birth but the secrecy still took
its toll on their relationship. (Since Barwick also wrote Confetti Check.)
It also gives a timeframe for her marriage to Rutland.
 

According to IMDB, Barnaby Shaw would have been tennish (maybe). Some kids
do look younger than their age, or the IMDB info (which was just an estimate
anyway) is off by a year or so.

In this case, we probably should accept that Johnny was eight or so, whether
the actor was or not.

 

If you look at the scenes in Confetti Check regarding the founding and
building of SHADO, it's pretty clear that Barwick, at least, fully meant for
the building timeframe for HQ to be pretty short. Maybe not all the way down
to 12 months, as Bentley put it, but very fast. And I see no reason why
Straker and company could not have been working in the completed sections
while other parts were being finished. So long as they had power and HVAC,
they'd be able to work.

Now for Moonbase to take several years - I don't doubt that in the least. In
Destruction there's a conversion where Straker tells Paul that Moonbase had
been under construction five to six years before. Of course we don't know
exactly the date for the events in Destruction, and we don't know how long
Moonbase had been operational, but there does seem to be an implication that
Moonbase took a while to build.

 

As for the accuracy of Sylvia and the art director's depictions of the
future - artists are frequently way ahead of their time. So I think we can
chalk that up to some *very* talented people working on the look and feel of
the show.

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:29 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] confetti check aok

 

 

the housten astrodome the 8th wonder of the world was concieved in less that
2 years, built in six months ahead of schedule in 4 years.
it was build right in the middle of a huge texas town.
this building was much bigger than shado and more dirt than a few million
cubic feet was moved.
it was completed and open to the public in 1965.
that is 20 years before shado. imagine the progress made in construction and
covert operations since then.
i propose that it could very well be done and in the time hinted at.
and also that john , ed starker's son wasnt anymore than 7 or 8 old. unless
there is screen cannon with how old he was when he died, he passes for that
age according to the class photos i glanced thru when i went thru my school
pics of my youth.
so all this controversy has to get much narrower in focus about why it could
not have been done in the outside edge of 8 years suggested.
moving the earth covertly was no problem.
construction and cement forming was no problem.
work teams in rotation until the forms were dried and the multi floor above
earth building, again no problem.
john straker being young or old enough [unless again there is screen cannon
of his age] is no problem.
the only problem that i have seen so far in rewatching both episodes, one a
tv movie, and the other confetti check- a-ok, is that the time jump
forewards is TOO accurate. the colors the clothes even paul foster's
girlfriend showering to music that could easily been some newwave punk band
is just too close. super jets a ok. wierd hair femmie blonde die jobs a ok.
pretentious shakespearian quips-a ok.
do a time magazine pic check from 1978-1980 and you will see what i mean.
jim





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, some science fiction writers had addressed the problem of space junk -
(don't remember exactly who, probably Heinlein, Clarke, and Asimov) and
Anderson and his people were sci-fi guys.

Let's say it's another one to chalk up to art anticipating reality. (Robert
Serling predicted sky-jackings before they happened in RL, and other writers
intimately familiar in their fields have made similar predictions based on
what *they* know but may not be 'common' knowledge until it happens. Using
jet-liners as missiles was a Tom Clancy fantasy - until someone did it.)

So - a five year building plan for Moonbase? That would put Moonbase
becoming at least semi-operational maybe less than a year before the events
in Identified? I figure that SHADO would have wanted to work the kinks out
of the system before actually using it as a battle base. And they did seem
to have most of the kinks out. So say it was occupied for at least a couple
months (maybe more) to get everything tested?

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of .
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] moonbase possible in 5 years

 

 

 
from 1968-1973 the russian space program left almost 24 tons of metal tubes,
fuel bins, landing craft and radio equipment on the dark side of the moon,
with no public release of information to the rest of the world.
thats about 15 school buses and 9 cars. more than enough for moon base from
our favorite show to be completed, if you use the comparasome of launches,
secrecy and materials left.
jim
 
also space junk was a major concern in the early to mid 1980's. even devo
did a song about being killed by space junk. but at the time of the show,
there was no concern at all, just wild eyed prophets proclaiming in several
decades that it might become a problem, while critics dismissed them as
uninformed radicals. everyone knew that space junk would fall to earth and
burn up and land in the ocean and sink.
but U.F.O. did an episode on the dramatic effect that space junk would have
in the early 1980's. and that spy satilites would hide in it. a noteworthy
plan that the chinese were accused of in the late 1990's of doing.
 
 
 
 

--- On Mon, 6/20/11, [hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net>
<[hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net> > wrote:

From: [hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net>
<[hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net> >
Subject: [SHADO] confetti check aok
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 20, 2011, 7:29 PM

 

the housten astrodome the 8th wonder of the world was concieved in less that
2 years, built in six months ahead of schedule in 4 years.
it was build right in the middle of a huge texas town.
this building was much bigger than shado and more dirt than a few million
cubic feet was moved.
it was completed and open to the public in 1965.
that is 20 years before shado. imagine the progress made in construction and
covert operations since then.
i propose that it could very well be done and in the time hinted at.
and also that john , ed starker's son wasnt anymore than 7 or 8 old. unless
there is screen cannon with how old he was when he died, he passes for that
age according to the class photos i glanced thru when i went thru my school
pics of my youth.
so all this controversy has to get much narrower in focus about why it could
not have been done in the outside edge of 8 years suggested.
moving the earth covertly was no problem.
construction and cement forming was no problem.
work teams in rotation until the forms were dried and the multi floor above
earth building, again no problem.
john straker being young or old enough [unless again there is screen cannon
of his age] is no problem.
the only problem that i have seen so far in rewatching both episodes, one a
tv movie, and the other confetti check- a-ok, is that the time jump
forewards is TOO accurate. the colors the clothes even paul foster's
girlfriend showering to music that could easily been some newwave punk band
is just too close. super jets a ok. wierd hair femmie blonde die jobs a ok.
pretentious shakespearian quips-a ok.
do a time magazine pic check from 1978-1980 and you will see what i mean.
jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In episode 1 of the UFO series Moonbase was just becoming operational.  So I'd
say they were actually occupied for a few months before going 'live.'  (They
also needed the utronics stuff yes?)





________________________________
From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 10:59:46 AM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] moonbase possible in 5 years

Well, some science fiction writers had addressed the problem of space junk -
(don't remember exactly who, probably Heinlein, Clarke, and Asimov) and
Anderson and his people were sci-fi guys.

Let's say it's another one to chalk up to art anticipating reality. (Robert
Serling predicted sky-jackings before they happened in RL, and other writers
intimately familiar in their fields have made similar predictions based on
what *they* know but may not be 'common' knowledge until it happens. Using
jet-liners as missiles was a Tom Clancy fantasy - until someone did it.)

So - a five year building plan for Moonbase? That would put Moonbase
becoming at least semi-operational maybe less than a year before the events
in Identified? I figure that SHADO would have wanted to work the kinks out
of the system before actually using it as a battle base. And they did seem
to have most of the kinks out. So say it was occupied for at least a couple
months (maybe more) to get everything tested?



  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of .
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] moonbase possible in 5 years



 


from 1968-1973 the russian space program left almost 24 tons of metal tubes,
fuel bins, landing craft and radio equipment on the dark side of the moon,
with no public release of information to the rest of the world.
thats about 15 school buses and 9 cars. more than enough for moon base from
our favorite show to be completed, if you use the comparasome of launches,
secrecy and materials left.
jim

also space junk was a major concern in the early to mid 1980's. even devo
did a song about being killed by space junk. but at the time of the show,
there was no concern at all, just wild eyed prophets proclaiming in several
decades that it might become a problem, while critics dismissed them as
uninformed radicals. everyone knew that space junk would fall to earth and
burn up and land in the ocean and sink.
but U.F.O. did an episode on the dramatic effect that space junk would have
in the early 1980's. and that spy satilites would hide in it. a noteworthy
plan that the chinese were accused of in the late 1990's of doing.





--- On Mon, 6/20/11, [hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net>
<[hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net> > wrote:

From: [hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net>
<[hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net> >
Subject: [SHADO] confetti check aok
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 20, 2011, 7:29 PM

 

the housten astrodome the 8th wonder of the world was concieved in less that
2 years, built in six months ahead of schedule in 4 years.
it was build right in the middle of a huge texas town.
this building was much bigger than shado and more dirt than a few million
cubic feet was moved.
it was completed and open to the public in 1965.
that is 20 years before shado. imagine the progress made in construction and
covert operations since then.
i propose that it could very well be done and in the time hinted at.
and also that john , ed starker's son wasnt anymore than 7 or 8 old. unless
there is screen cannon with how old he was when he died, he passes for that
age according to the class photos i glanced thru when i went thru my school
pics of my youth.
so all this controversy has to get much narrower in focus about why it could
not have been done in the outside edge of 8 years suggested.
moving the earth covertly was no problem.
construction and cement forming was no problem.
work teams in rotation until the forms were dried and the multi floor above
earth building, again no problem.
john straker being young or old enough [unless again there is screen cannon
of his age] is no problem.
the only problem that i have seen so far in rewatching both episodes, one a
tv movie, and the other confetti check- a-ok, is that the time jump
forewards is TOO accurate. the colors the clothes even paul foster's
girlfriend showering to music that could easily been some newwave punk band
is just too close. super jets a ok. wierd hair femmie blonde die jobs a ok.
pretentious shakespearian quips-a ok.
do a time magazine pic check from 1978-1980 and you will see what i mean.
jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i was just watching 'a question of priorities' and figured out why the alien was chased and then shot at and then landed and took over the old blind woman's house and then went out to get zapped for no apparent reason.
its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his dumba**  ex wife, and when that was accomplished, went out to go get dissintergrated.
so the aliens arent all bad after all.
jim

--- On Tue, 6/21/11, wmc <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: wmc <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [SHADO] moonbase possible in 5 years
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 10:19 AM


 



In episode 1 of the UFO series Moonbase was just becoming operational. So I'd
say they were actually occupied for a few months before going 'live.' (They
also needed the utronics stuff yes?)

________________________________
From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 10:59:46 AM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] moonbase possible in 5 years

Well, some science fiction writers had addressed the problem of space junk -
(don't remember exactly who, probably Heinlein, Clarke, and Asimov) and
Anderson and his people were sci-fi guys.

Let's say it's another one to chalk up to art anticipating reality. (Robert
Serling predicted sky-jackings before they happened in RL, and other writers
intimately familiar in their fields have made similar predictions based on
what *they* know but may not be 'common' knowledge until it happens. Using
jet-liners as missiles was a Tom Clancy fantasy - until someone did it.)

So - a five year building plan for Moonbase? That would put Moonbase
becoming at least semi-operational maybe less than a year before the events
in Identified? I figure that SHADO would have wanted to work the kinks out
of the system before actually using it as a battle base. And they did seem
to have most of the kinks out. So say it was occupied for at least a couple
months (maybe more) to get everything tested?

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of .
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] moonbase possible in 5 years

from 1968-1973 the russian space program left almost 24 tons of metal tubes,
fuel bins, landing craft and radio equipment on the dark side of the moon,
with no public release of information to the rest of the world.
thats about 15 school buses and 9 cars. more than enough for moon base from
our favorite show to be completed, if you use the comparasome of launches,
secrecy and materials left.
jim

also space junk was a major concern in the early to mid 1980's. even devo
did a song about being killed by space junk. but at the time of the show,
there was no concern at all, just wild eyed prophets proclaiming in several
decades that it might become a problem, while critics dismissed them as
uninformed radicals. everyone knew that space junk would fall to earth and
burn up and land in the ocean and sink.
but U.F.O. did an episode on the dramatic effect that space junk would have
in the early 1980's. and that spy satilites would hide in it. a noteworthy
plan that the chinese were accused of in the late 1990's of doing.

--- On Mon, 6/20/11, [hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net>
<[hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net> > wrote:

From: [hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net>
<[hidden email] <mailto:aquaboi%40sbcglobal.net> >
Subject: [SHADO] confetti check aok
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 20, 2011, 7:29 PM

the housten astrodome the 8th wonder of the world was concieved in less that
2 years, built in six months ahead of schedule in 4 years.
it was build right in the middle of a huge texas town.
this building was much bigger than shado and more dirt than a few million
cubic feet was moved.
it was completed and open to the public in 1965.
that is 20 years before shado. imagine the progress made in construction and
covert operations since then.
i propose that it could very well be done and in the time hinted at.
and also that john , ed starker's son wasnt anymore than 7 or 8 old. unless
there is screen cannon with how old he was when he died, he passes for that
age according to the class photos i glanced thru when i went thru my school
pics of my youth.
so all this controversy has to get much narrower in focus about why it could
not have been done in the outside edge of 8 years suggested.
moving the earth covertly was no problem.
construction and cement forming was no problem.
work teams in rotation until the forms were dried and the multi floor above
earth building, again no problem.
john straker being young or old enough [unless again there is screen cannon
of his age] is no problem.
the only problem that i have seen so far in rewatching both episodes, one a
tv movie, and the other confetti check- a-ok, is that the time jump
forewards is TOO accurate. the colors the clothes even paul foster's
girlfriend showering to music that could easily been some newwave punk band
is just too close. super jets a ok. wierd hair femmie blonde die jobs a ok.
pretentious shakespearian quips-a ok.
do a time magazine pic check from 1978-1980 and you will see what i mean.
jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his dumba**  ex wife

Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?

I mean, her child was dying / died.  She *should* be upset.

Marc

Hi,

I have to agree.

Let's face it, Ed and Mary were doomed from the start. It was their destiny as written and necessitated in he script, and to be one of the most important ingredients to make the later character of Ed Straker work.

Both their characters, needs and motivations were at conflict with each other, and in this case, love could not conquer all.

As with most marriages (and relationships) that break down, it was their lack of communication that drove a wedge between them. The lack of communication was driven by Ed's need for absolute secrecy. It was a shame that SHADO Security hadn't seemed to take account of situations such as this - which was going to be fairly predictable, unless some plausible cover could be maintained. Think of the film "True Lies" (yes, I know...)... but there was a plausible cover created for the principal character, and this does happen (to a lesser extent in the UK security services - don't know about the US).

No, poor Ed and Mary's relationship was doomed, and there was nothing much that could have been done at the time to save it. I can see both their points of view. It was a shame that Mary couldn't have been accommodated in some way. I've always felt sorry for her, and also felt hugely sorry for Ed's helpless position.

But, it was this position is vulnerability that was calculated and reasoned in the script... it sounds callous, but in the context of the show, it was necessary.

SHADO 'HAD' to be callous... this of Paul Foster's Tina, they told her he was dead, and that was all, that's ALL they could tell her. She was left in limbo, and that's a really horrible feeling.

Regards,

Griff

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his dumba**  ex wife
>
> Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?
>
> I mean, her child was dying / died.  She *should* be upset.
>
> Marc

I'm pretty sure in the US there are plausible covers given. (Witness
Protection is certainly creative enough) - and even if WITSEC and the CIA
did not, SHADO's security should have been smart enough to give Straker a
plausible cover. One can take the fact that they didn't as evidence that
SHADO security (or at least someone around there) had an agenda that didn't
include Mary Straker.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
griffwason
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 

Hi,

I have to agree.

Let's face it, Ed and Mary were doomed from the start. It was their destiny
as written and necessitated in he script, and to be one of the most
important ingredients to make the later character of Ed Straker work.

Both their characters, needs and motivations were at conflict with each
other, and in this case, love could not conquer all.

As with most marriages (and relationships) that break down, it was their
lack of communication that drove a wedge between them. The lack of
communication was driven by Ed's need for absolute secrecy. It was a shame
that SHADO Security hadn't seemed to take account of situations such as this
- which was going to be fairly predictable, unless some plausible cover
could be maintained. Think of the film "True Lies" (yes, I know...)... but
there was a plausible cover created for the principal character, and this
does happen (to a lesser extent in the UK security services - don't know
about the US).

No, poor Ed and Mary's relationship was doomed, and there was nothing much
that could have been done at the time to save it. I can see both their
points of view. It was a shame that Mary couldn't have been accommodated in
some way. I've always felt sorry for her, and also felt hugely sorry for
Ed's helpless position.

But, it was this position is vulnerability that was calculated and reasoned
in the script... it sounds callous, but in the context of the show, it was
necessary.

SHADO 'HAD' to be callous... this of Paul Foster's Tina, they told her he
was dead, and that was all, that's ALL they could tell her. She was left in
limbo, and that's a really horrible feeling.

Regards,

Griff

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc
Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his
dumba**  ex wife
>
> Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?
>
> I mean, her child was dying / died. She *should* be upset.
>
> Marc





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On the other hand, one could interpret it as Straker was such an
unbelievably bad liar that no cover story would have helped *grin*

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Deborah Rorabaugh
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 

I'm pretty sure in the US there are plausible covers given. (Witness
Protection is certainly creative enough) - and even if WITSEC and the CIA
did not, SHADO's security should have been smart enough to give Straker a
plausible cover. One can take the fact that they didn't as evidence that
SHADO security (or at least someone around there) had an agenda that didn't
include Mary Straker.

_____

From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
griffwason
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:04 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

Hi,

I have to agree.

Let's face it, Ed and Mary were doomed from the start. It was their destiny
as written and necessitated in he script, and to be one of the most
important ingredients to make the later character of Ed Straker work.

Both their characters, needs and motivations were at conflict with each
other, and in this case, love could not conquer all.

As with most marriages (and relationships) that break down, it was their
lack of communication that drove a wedge between them. The lack of
communication was driven by Ed's need for absolute secrecy. It was a shame
that SHADO Security hadn't seemed to take account of situations such as this
- which was going to be fairly predictable, unless some plausible cover
could be maintained. Think of the film "True Lies" (yes, I know...)... but
there was a plausible cover created for the principal character, and this
does happen (to a lesser extent in the UK security services - don't know
about the US).

No, poor Ed and Mary's relationship was doomed, and there was nothing much
that could have been done at the time to save it. I can see both their
points of view. It was a shame that Mary couldn't have been accommodated in
some way. I've always felt sorry for her, and also felt hugely sorry for
Ed's helpless position.

But, it was this position is vulnerability that was calculated and reasoned
in the script... it sounds callous, but in the context of the show, it was
necessary.

SHADO 'HAD' to be callous... this of Paul Foster's Tina, they told her he
was dead, and that was all, that's ALL they could tell her. She was left in
limbo, and that's a really horrible feeling.

Regards,

Griff

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc
Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his
dumba** ex wife
>
> Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?
>
> I mean, her child was dying / died. She *should* be upset.
>
> Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To me, as much as she was NOT portrayed well (blaming Straker for her son's
death, when she didn't even KNOW he was working to get the medicine for him, was
very , very strange.)  Having said that lots of marriages fail after the tragedy
of loss of a child.  


For something as important as SHADO I would have thought Mary would have been
vetted and brought in on the secret as well.  After all, having someone outside
of the organization that Ed could talk to would have been really good to be a
stress reliever for him.




________________________________
From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 2:55:24 PM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

I'm pretty sure in the US there are plausible covers given. (Witness
Protection is certainly creative enough) - and even if WITSEC and the CIA
did not, SHADO's security should have been smart enough to give Straker a
plausible cover. One can take the fact that they didn't as evidence that
SHADO security (or at least someone around there) had an agenda that didn't
include Mary Straker.



  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
griffwason
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker



 

Hi,

I have to agree.

Let's face it, Ed and Mary were doomed from the start. It was their destiny
as written and necessitated in he script, and to be one of the most
important ingredients to make the later character of Ed Straker work.

Both their characters, needs and motivations were at conflict with each
other, and in this case, love could not conquer all.

As with most marriages (and relationships) that break down, it was their
lack of communication that drove a wedge between them. The lack of
communication was driven by Ed's need for absolute secrecy. It was a shame
that SHADO Security hadn't seemed to take account of situations such as this
- which was going to be fairly predictable, unless some plausible cover
could be maintained. Think of the film "True Lies" (yes, I know...)... but
there was a plausible cover created for the principal character, and this
does happen (to a lesser extent in the UK security services - don't know
about the US).

No, poor Ed and Mary's relationship was doomed, and there was nothing much
that could have been done at the time to save it. I can see both their
points of view. It was a shame that Mary couldn't have been accommodated in
some way. I've always felt sorry for her, and also felt hugely sorry for
Ed's helpless position.

But, it was this position is vulnerability that was calculated and reasoned
in the script... it sounds callous, but in the context of the show, it was
necessary.

SHADO 'HAD' to be callous... this of Paul Foster's Tina, they told her he
was dead, and that was all, that's ALL they could tell her. She was left in
limbo, and that's a really horrible feeling.

Regards,

Griff

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc
Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his
dumba**  ex wife
>
> Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?
>
> I mean, her child was dying / died. She *should* be upset.
>
> Marc





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

everything she did was completely childish.  all the other shado women are extreemely attractive and intelligent. i also noticed that in the opening scene of identified that the sky-diver pilot was the same guy shot by the alien and both his sisters were taken or shot.
but every time mary straker comes on, she has some demented coal miner new husband, that acts like john cleese yelling at the top of the stairs at his mother's tea party in mpfc. and wont let ed say goodbye to his son, its all her fault. all she does is blame ed for everything, and apparently ''confetti check- a-ok.'' is some kind of mental health sanity check ed had to do with her when she was in the middle of a meltdown.
some call it cute, because she looks good in a bikini, but i call it genetic mis-weaving and if some alternate universe john straker comes back in time from his sick world to warn straker i would find it more believable than anything about mary straker at all. i suggest that some do a scene by scene edit of her and put it on a loop view to drive crows away from cornfields.
sincerely,
jim

--- On Tue, 6/21/11, D.A. Rorabaugh <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: D.A. Rorabaugh <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:23 PM


 



On the other hand, one could interpret it as Straker was such an
unbelievably bad liar that no cover story would have helped *grin*

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Deborah Rorabaugh
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

I'm pretty sure in the US there are plausible covers given. (Witness
Protection is certainly creative enough) - and even if WITSEC and the CIA
did not, SHADO's security should have been smart enough to give Straker a
plausible cover. One can take the fact that they didn't as evidence that
SHADO security (or at least someone around there) had an agenda that didn't
include Mary Straker.

_____

From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
griffwason
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:04 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

Hi,

I have to agree.

Let's face it, Ed and Mary were doomed from the start. It was their destiny
as written and necessitated in he script, and to be one of the most
important ingredients to make the later character of Ed Straker work.

Both their characters, needs and motivations were at conflict with each
other, and in this case, love could not conquer all.

As with most marriages (and relationships) that break down, it was their
lack of communication that drove a wedge between them. The lack of
communication was driven by Ed's need for absolute secrecy. It was a shame
that SHADO Security hadn't seemed to take account of situations such as this
- which was going to be fairly predictable, unless some plausible cover
could be maintained. Think of the film "True Lies" (yes, I know...)... but
there was a plausible cover created for the principal character, and this
does happen (to a lesser extent in the UK security services - don't know
about the US).

No, poor Ed and Mary's relationship was doomed, and there was nothing much
that could have been done at the time to save it. I can see both their
points of view. It was a shame that Mary couldn't have been accommodated in
some way. I've always felt sorry for her, and also felt hugely sorry for
Ed's helpless position.

But, it was this position is vulnerability that was calculated and reasoned
in the script... it sounds callous, but in the context of the show, it was
necessary.

SHADO 'HAD' to be callous... this of Paul Foster's Tina, they told her he
was dead, and that was all, that's ALL they could tell her. She was left in
limbo, and that's a really horrible feeling.

Regards,

Griff

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc
Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his
dumba** ex wife
>
> Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?
>
> I mean, her child was dying / died. She *should* be upset.
>
> Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  Excuse me for just putting my two pence in here on the subject of Mary Straker. One of the posters quite accurately pointed out Mary's exceptionally childish and immature behaviour - all you have to do is watch the two eps in which she appears and that is plain. I wonder if it was hard for Suzanne Neve to play such an awful character?

  I think the security dudes at SHADO did NOT bring her on board with the secret because they felt she wasn't trustworthy. I certainly wouldn't have trusted her with such a big secret - she likely would have told her mother to shut her up about Straker's supposed infidelity and that would have been that! At one point Alec Freeman reminds Ed that telling Mary would be a big mistake and could actually put her life in danger.

  Mary is portrayed in BOTH eps as a throwback to the 1950's - a woman who quits her job to stay home and be a hausfrau, who lives for nothing except having a baby and depending on Straker to be her only companion etc. It appears she makes no attempt to make friends with her new neighbours when they move into the house, and she has no friends to spend time with as Straker is concentrating on getting SHADO up and running. She doesn't even appear to be educated or poised like the women Straker meets through SHADO (Gay Ellis, Nina Barry, et al). Straker is a well educated, intelligent man - why would he marry such a fool when it's obvious that he prefers a different kind of woman? The only person with any influence over Mary is the unseen but evil mother. Sort of makes one wonder if the mother in law was against Straker from the start - but then again this is JUST a TV show, right?

  Cheers, Pam McCaughey the Canuck


   



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, even if she hadn't been given the full story, a plausible cover would
have helped immensely. Or even just someone like Alec or Miss Ealand taking
the time to talk to her, make sure Straker got to his insurance agent
appointments, remembered anniversaries, that sort of thing. It wasn't as if
he didn't have access to that sort of support, personal assistants do things
like that all the time - that's their job.

But yes, Mary's reactions were a little odd - she turns to Straker instead
of her husband to demand that something be done, yet berates him for not
being able to stay at the hospital even though Straker would have had to
leave to arrange for the drug in any case.

Barwick's script doesn't give all that many clues, either. The script
indicates that Mary still had feelings for Straker, but what we see seems
harsher than that.

Some people have suggested that indicates that her relationship with Rutland
may have not been a happy one, either.

Although I still say the doctor was guilty of malpractice - Johnny had been
knocked unconscious, had facial contusions and no mention was made of
possible brain injury. Antibiotics don't treat brain trauma. :-o

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wmc
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 2:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 

To me, as much as she was NOT portrayed well (blaming Straker for her son's
death, when she didn't even KNOW he was working to get the medicine for him,
was
very , very strange.) Having said that lots of marriages fail after the
tragedy
of loss of a child.

For something as important as SHADO I would have thought Mary would have
been
vetted and brought in on the secret as well. After all, having someone
outside
of the organization that Ed could talk to would have been really good to be
a
stress reliever for him.

________________________________
From: Deborah Rorabaugh <[hidden email] <mailto:momkat%40dandello.net>
>
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 2:55:24 PM
Subject: RE: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

I'm pretty sure in the US there are plausible covers given. (Witness
Protection is certainly creative enough) - and even if WITSEC and the CIA
did not, SHADO's security should have been smart enough to give Straker a
plausible cover. One can take the fact that they didn't as evidence that
SHADO security (or at least someone around there) had an agenda that didn't
include Mary Straker.

_____

From: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
griffwason
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:04 PM
To: [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

Hi,

I have to agree.

Let's face it, Ed and Mary were doomed from the start. It was their destiny
as written and necessitated in he script, and to be one of the most
important ingredients to make the later character of Ed Straker work.

Both their characters, needs and motivations were at conflict with each
other, and in this case, love could not conquer all.

As with most marriages (and relationships) that break down, it was their
lack of communication that drove a wedge between them. The lack of
communication was driven by Ed's need for absolute secrecy. It was a shame
that SHADO Security hadn't seemed to take account of situations such as this
- which was going to be fairly predictable, unless some plausible cover
could be maintained. Think of the film "True Lies" (yes, I know...)... but
there was a plausible cover created for the principal character, and this
does happen (to a lesser extent in the UK security services - don't know
about the US).

No, poor Ed and Mary's relationship was doomed, and there was nothing much
that could have been done at the time to save it. I can see both their
points of view. It was a shame that Mary couldn't have been accommodated in
some way. I've always felt sorry for her, and also felt hugely sorry for
Ed's helpless position.

But, it was this position is vulnerability that was calculated and reasoned
in the script... it sounds callous, but in the context of the show, it was
necessary.

SHADO 'HAD' to be callous... this of Paul Foster's Tina, they told her he
was dead, and that was all, that's ALL they could tell her. She was left in
limbo, and that's a really horrible feeling.

Regards,

Griff

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:SHADO%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marc
Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> > its very clear that the alien wanted to get straker away from his
dumba** ex wife
>
> Boy, Mary Straker doesn't get much sympathy from UFO fans, does she?
>
> I mean, her child was dying / died. She *should* be upset.
>
> Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, supposedly Rutland was supposed to be at the wedding. Which might lend
weight to the idea the Mumsy wanted Mary to marry Rutland instead of Straker
in the first place. So Mary chooses the one Mumsy doesn't like in hopes to
be carried off by her white knight to America - only it doesn't happen.
She's married to a workaholic and doesn't have the gumption to tell Mumsy
off.

But yes, Mary does seem more than a little immature, which is one of the
reasons I don't buy into the idea that she and Straker met while she was
working in a government or military office. I certainly wouldn't have hired
her.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pam
McCaughey
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:04 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 


Excuse me for just putting my two pence in here on the subject of Mary
Straker. One of the posters quite accurately pointed out Mary's
exceptionally childish and immature behaviour - all you have to do is watch
the two eps in which she appears and that is plain. I wonder if it was hard
for Suzanne Neve to play such an awful character?

I think the security dudes at SHADO did NOT bring her on board with the
secret because they felt she wasn't trustworthy. I certainly wouldn't have
trusted her with such a big secret - she likely would have told her mother
to shut her up about Straker's supposed infidelity and that would have been
that! At one point Alec Freeman reminds Ed that telling Mary would be a big
mistake and could actually put her life in danger.

Mary is portrayed in BOTH eps as a throwback to the 1950's - a woman who
quits her job to stay home and be a hausfrau, who lives for nothing except
having a baby and depending on Straker to be her only companion etc. It
appears she makes no attempt to make friends with her new neighbours when
they move into the house, and she has no friends to spend time with as
Straker is concentrating on getting SHADO up and running. She doesn't even
appear to be educated or poised like the women Straker meets through SHADO
(Gay Ellis, Nina Barry, et al). Straker is a well educated, intelligent man
- why would he marry such a fool when it's obvious that he prefers a
different kind of woman? The only person with any influence over Mary is the
unseen but evil mother. Sort of makes one wonder if the mother in law was
against Straker from the start - but then again this is JUST a TV show,
right?

Cheers, Pam McCaughey the Canuck

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Another interesting disscussion. I think I metioned this before, a lot depends on Mary's perception. Did she think her husband was still working in military intellegence? Or did she think that he was a film studio executive? We know that he was still in uniform up to just before Alec Freeman was indtroduced to Henderson. If Mary believed that Ed was still in military intellegence, then she shares much more of the responsibility in the breakup of the marriage. There is one line in the episode where Mary says "Break the bloody rule for once," which leads me to believe that she knows he is still on active duty.

Now if she was under the assumption that Ed was a civilian then her concern and frustration have much more justification. But in my eyes she never questioned Ed's fidelity until her medaling mother got involved, and even then the first person she asked for when she awoke at the hospital was Ed. And that leads to the biggest plot hole in the entire episode. What was so important that Alec couldn't have handled it and let Ed stay at the hospital? I don't believe for a second that Straker was the only person that could have handled whatever crisis had arisen. The military doesn't work that way, (at least in the western world) if the commander isn't there, the executive officer takes over.

There is onscreen evidence that SHADO addressed this problem as Jim Regen's wife seemed to have some idea about his occupation, she at least knew that it was dangerous. Other operatives were married as well, Roper, Masters, Maxwell.

I do agree that Ed and Mary had the deck stacked against them from day one.

Matt :)



--- In [hidden email], "D.A. Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:

I totally agree with Deb on her comments here vis a vis Mary Straker. I have to admit I didn't realize Rutland was supposed to be the wedding of Ed and Mary, but that would just add a little interesting fillip to the story in light of her ending up with him after the divorce from Ed. I think Mary was completely influenced in every way by "Mumsy" (love that!), and not in a good way. Mary herself doesn't seem to be a very good judge of character - I also liked what Deb said "Yes, Mary does seem more than a little immature, which is one of the
reasons I don't buy into the idea that she and Straker met while she was working in a government or military office. I certainly wouldn't have hired her."

So what did Ed see in Mary and why did he opt to propose marriage? Was it a case of their hormones having party hats on? Other than her looks, Mary doesn't seem to present much that is attractive about herself - certainly not her personality.

Pam the Canuck




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Matt has made some totally salient points here! I have often wondered what status Mary felt her husband was: film mogul or still involved in MI? Paul Foster's girlfriend Tina knows he has a dangerous job (possibly military) but she is never in the real know about SHADO etc. There are plenty of police officers and MI officers who for various obvious reasons cannot tell their families etc what they do - esp if they end up going undercover or acting as moles. Any woman who marries such a man should be ready ot ACCEPT the fact he cannot talk to her about his work - same with psychiatrists and other types of doctors - they're not supposed to break confidentiality and blab about their work (or their patients) to anyone. It's actually illegal. Pam the Canuck

   
  Another interesting disscussion. I think I metioned this before, a lot depends on Mary's perception. Did she think her husband was still working in military intellegence? Or did she think that he was a film studio executive? We know that he was still in uniform up to just before Alec Freeman was indtroduced to Henderson. If Mary believed that Ed was still in military intellegence, then she shares much more of the responsibility in the breakup of the marriage. There is one line in the episode where Mary says "Break the bloody rule for once," which leads me to believe that she knows he is still on active duty.

  Now if she was under the assumption that Ed was a civilian then her concern and frustration have much more justification. But in my eyes she never questioned Ed's fidelity until her medaling mother got involved, and even then the first person she asked for when she awoke at the hospital was Ed. And that leads to the biggest plot hole in the entire episode. What was so important that Alec couldn't have handled it and let Ed stay at the hospital? I don't believe for a second that Straker was the only person that could have handled whatever crisis had arisen. The military doesn't work that way, (at least in the western world) if the commander isn't there, the executive officer takes over.

  There is onscreen evidence that SHADO addressed this problem as Jim Regen's wife seemed to have some idea about his occupation, she at least knew that it was dangerous. Other operatives were married as well, Roper, Masters, Maxwell.

  I do agree that Ed and Mary had the deck stacked against them from day one.

  Matt :)

  --- In [hidden email], "D.A. Rorabaugh" <momkat@...> wrote:
  >
  > Well, supposedly Rutland was supposed to be at the wedding. Which might lend
  > weight to the idea the Mumsy wanted Mary to marry Rutland instead of Straker
  > in the first place. So Mary chooses the one Mumsy doesn't like in hopes to
  > be carried off by her white knight to America - only it doesn't happen.
  > She's married to a workaholic and doesn't have the gumption to tell Mumsy
  > off.
  >
  > But yes, Mary does seem more than a little immature, which is one of the
  > reasons I don't buy into the idea that she and Straker met while she was
  > working in a government or military office. I certainly wouldn't have hired
  > her.
  >
  >
  >
  > _____
  >
  > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pam
  > McCaughey
  > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:04 PM
  > To: [hidden email]
  > Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Excuse me for just putting my two pence in here on the subject of Mary
  > Straker. One of the posters quite accurately pointed out Mary's
  > exceptionally childish and immature behaviour - all you have to do is watch
  > the two eps in which she appears and that is plain. I wonder if it was hard
  > for Suzanne Neve to play such an awful character?
  >
  > I think the security dudes at SHADO did NOT bring her on board with the
  > secret because they felt she wasn't trustworthy. I certainly wouldn't have
  > trusted her with such a big secret - she likely would have told her mother
  > to shut her up about Straker's supposed infidelity and that would have been
  > that! At one point Alec Freeman reminds Ed that telling Mary would be a big
  > mistake and could actually put her life in danger.
  >
  > Mary is portrayed in BOTH eps as a throwback to the 1950's - a woman who
  > quits her job to stay home and be a hausfrau, who lives for nothing except
  > having a baby and depending on Straker to be her only companion etc. It
  > appears she makes no attempt to make friends with her new neighbours when
  > they move into the house, and she has no friends to spend time with as
  > Straker is concentrating on getting SHADO up and running. She doesn't even
  > appear to be educated or poised like the women Straker meets through SHADO
  > (Gay Ellis, Nina Barry, et al). Straker is a well educated, intelligent man
  > - why would he marry such a fool when it's obvious that he prefers a
  > different kind of woman? The only person with any influence over Mary is the
  > unseen but evil mother. Sort of makes one wonder if the mother in law was
  > against Straker from the start - but then again this is JUST a TV show,
  > right?
  >
  > Cheers, Pam McCaughey the Canuck
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I wonder if it was hard for Suzanne Neve to play such an awful character?

Evidently I'm in the minority here, since I didn't think Mary Straker was awful at all...
I think some of our list members might be a bit unsympathetic, or have lived
charmed lives where everything goes according to plan.  :-)

But as for whether it was hard for her to play Mary Straker, all you need to do
is watch the the 1960s mini-series "The Portrait of a Lady", which features Ed
Bishop and Suzanne Neve, and the scenes they have together seem almost like
a rehash of CONFETTI CHECK A-OK (except that this mini-series was filmed
before UFO).

Marc

My own take (worth about a nickel in today's market) is that Mary fell in
love with the idea of a guy in uniform. She was thinking there'd be travel,
maybe moving to the States. And none of that happened. But according to
Barwick's script, the marriage broke up three years before which means they
stayed together for five years after Johnny was born.

As for Ed, all I can guess is those hormones really were having a party.
*grin*. I can't honestly see him marrying her if he'd actually known her.
Sticking with her after he'd made his vows I can see. But then they do say
that love is blind (and also stupid at times.)

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pam
McCaughey
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:05 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SHADO] Re: Mary Straker

 

 

I totally agree with Deb on her comments here vis a vis Mary Straker. I have
to admit I didn't realize Rutland was supposed to be the wedding of Ed and
Mary, but that would just add a little interesting fillip to the story in
light of her ending up with him after the divorce from Ed. I think Mary was
completely influenced in every way by "Mumsy" (love that!), and not in a
good way. Mary herself doesn't seem to be a very good judge of character - I
also liked what Deb said "Yes, Mary does seem more than a little immature,
which is one of the
reasons I don't buy into the idea that she and Straker met while she was
working in a government or military office. I certainly wouldn't have hired
her."

So what did Ed see in Mary and why did he opt to propose marriage? Was it a
case of their hormones having party hats on? Other than her looks, Mary
doesn't seem to present much that is attractive about herself - certainly
not her personality.

Pam the Canuck

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]