the method of propulsion of the alien vehicles...

I do find it very perplexing ., in regard the distance involved in the prolonged flight of the aliens ., in order to reach the Earth. How does this rather small craft manage to get to us in seemingly a not too long time ....i.e. - not hundreds of years.Also ., the nearest habitable planets are light years away., and ., as far as i know ... they do not originate inside our own solar system. Any ideas.

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in the first couple episodes they talk about the ships
going faster than the speed of light

--- paul foster <[hidden email]> wrote:






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CONTENTS DELETED

unfortnately, we have no idea on the method of
propulsion, maybe the craft are Launced at many times
the speed of light and the craft brakes
it obviously can be detected, and seem sto
it seems to bleed off speed quickly, i dont remember
any craft reattaining speed though and they do seem to
be somewhat ponderous in action

--- "Hemmings, R.K." <[hidden email]> wrote:






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--- In [hidden email], "Hemmings, R.K." <rkh@...> wrote: If Einstein is right (which he seems to be, but may not be - in the
same way that Newton seemed to be, but actually not); then there is a
universal speed limit imposed by physics, which is of course the speed
of light.

However, one laterally tantalizing possibility around this problem is
to realize that because time and space are actually "space-time", one
possible solution is to instead manipulate gravity in a localised but
directional way that bends _space_ to bring your destination closer
towards you! (Imagine scrunching a carpet to bring the two ends closer
together - the traversal distance from one end of the rug to the other
is now much shortened).

The net result is that it's *seems* to another, that you've traveled
faster than light because you've crossed so much distance so quickly.
But in reality, you've just traveled speedily over a 'short' distance.

Think about the Enterprise going into warp in the credits of STtNG,
how it looks 'stretched'? This is perhaps how the effect would look to
an external observer (maybe). The alien crafts in the UFO series then,
may be doing just that and our estimated speed of them violating our
laws of physics, a faux- effect of this.

Just a thought. :-)

> > >I do find it very perplexing ., in regard the distance
> > >involved in the prolonged flight of the aliens ., in order to
> > >reach the Earth. How does this rather small craft manage to
> > >get to us in seemingly a not too long time ....i.e. - not
> > >hundreds of years.Also ., the nearest habitable planets are
> > >light years away., and ., as far as i know ... they do not
> > >originate inside our own solar system. Any ideas.

Some internal memos written during UFO's pre-production indicated
that the Aliens may come from Alpha Centauri, which is about 4
light years away. It also said that the alien craft travel
many times the speed of light, so that the journey would
take a matter of months.

The contents of these memos were published in an old issue
of Fanderson's FAB magazine. I don't know if this issue is
still available as a back issue or not... (and I've never
seen scans/photos of the original memos)

Marc

--- In [hidden email], "Hemmings, R.K." <rkh@...> wrote:
Actually, I'm less perplexed by the Aliens method of propulsion, which
from my viewpoint can remaining mysterious and menacing, than by
SHADO's methods of getting to the alien panet using the probe in
'Closeup'. I've not watched the episode for a year or so, but recall
that on screen the elapsed time between following the UFO out of the
solar system to receiving the (uncalibrated) photos back was meant to
be only a few weeks, months at tops. Although it looked as though the
probe used conventional rocket technology, in reality SHADO would have
had to have mastered faster than light propulsion themselves, even to
have got the probe to the nearest star!


 

> I've not watched the episode for a year or so, but recall that on
> screen the elapsed time between following the UFO out of the solar
> system to receiving the (uncalibrated) photos back was meant to be
> only a few weeks, months at tops. Although it looked as though the
> probe used conventional rocket technology, in reality SHADO would have
> had to have mastered faster than light propulsion themselves, even to
> have got the probe to the nearest star!

Yes, that probe in CLOSE UP would need to be travelling faster than the
speed of light. Not very believable, but also note that the
Interceptors were travelling at faster than the speed of light as well
in that episode (you can hear them announcing the speeds in terms of
SOL, where SOL 1 is the speed of light).

It's best not to think about it too much... the script writers obviously
didn't! :-)

Marc

Agreed.

I have always thought of it as - the aliens come from a vast outpost on one of our outer planets, thus their ships only need to travel at conventional speeds, and thus it dispenses with the anomaly of our ships performance vs their ships performance.

I like to think of it as their race came to our solar system a long time ago in an aging multigenerational starship, and they settled onto one of our outer planets, forming a vast network of underground tunnels and caverns, etc. A complete homeworld burrowed underground. They've literally taken over Pluto or one of the satellites of one of the gas giants, and from there they look inward at us on our warm fertile world with envy....

I've always wanted to write a story about that, but somehow I never get the time and motivation.

I know it goes against what's written in the scripts, but it makes it more believable in my own mind.

Dave H


----------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela McCaughey
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] the method of propulsion of the alien vehicles...


In regards to the propulsion of the alien craft, I've always felt they had a
base ops in our solar system from which the little ships we've come to know
and hate arrived. A mother ship probably comes from their own system - which
is likely yes, light years away!

Pam the Canuck




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In regards to the propulsion of the alien craft, I've always felt they had a
base ops in our solar system from which the little ships we've come to know
and hate arrived. A mother ship probably comes from their own system - which
is likely yes, light years away!

Pam the Canuck

CONTENTS DELETED

nice theory but I gotta blow holes in it, depending on
how long ago they came to sol system they could have
wiped us out long ago, if even in the 40's their tech
would have made mincemeat out of us,
my theory still is they picked up on us in the 1920's
when hilter did his broadcast or radio started,
discovered some minor means of ftl, throwing small
groups of ships as a vanguard,
they may have a base in sol system, to shoot the ships
back, but retconing it needs a little more
believability, i am sorry, not downing on you
there are small numbers of the invaders, maybe, we
know that though they are sterile they do have
different ages to them
trying to stay in the "theme" of the series is hard
so here is my take
and please point out errors
somehow a group of humans were taken off earth and
settles on centaurii, becuase there are few diseases
they blossom, using up all the natural resources they
can, and wasting probably their solar system
they begin to degenerate, unable to reproduce, they
work on longevity
then in the 1920's, or a little earlier,they pick up
radio or tv and discover this lost branch of man, they
crank up there tech and discover a way of "shooting"
small ships up to and past ftl, if einstein is right
there are still loopholes
as they enter the stronger influence of the sun they
need to bleed off the speed, maybe using a grav drive
they then take their biosamples and after leaving
earth and maybe just past the grav well of earth they
are able to jump up to speed, or have a "shooter
somewhere in the sol system,
the probe, which I dont remember the episode might be
using the same tech able to shoot small materials up
to past light speed


caverns, etc. A complete ----------------------------------------------------------------------





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Hi Dave - my only correction I'd make to your possible story idea - because
I think the idea is great - is that I'd move the alien base up closer -
maybe a moon of Jupiter (Ganymede or Io) or perhaps even a base on
Mars.....a closer neighbourhood than Pluto.....Pam the Canuck

I'd thought of that. In fact, when I was watching the show for the first time as a kid, I always used to interpret that scene at the end credits where they showed the sun, earth, etc receding, then that world popping up, as either Mars or that popular "Planet X" of the time. Truth is it could be anywhere w/in the sol system, far enough to put it out of our reach, but w/in theirs with similar speed & flight characteristics.

I think I did mention a moon of a gas giant. That would certainly make for some quite beautiful visual effects scenes if this were ever a movie....don't you think?

Perhaps they are spread out on several worlds of the solar system. Have you ever read "Raiders from the Rings"?....I think by Alan E Norse from the 60's or 70's?


------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela McCaughey
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] the method of propulsion of the alien vehicles...


Hi Dave - my only correction I'd make to your possible story idea - because
I think the idea is great - is that I'd move the alien base up closer -
maybe a moon of Jupiter (Ganymede or Io) or perhaps even a base on
Mars.....a closer neighbourhood than Pluto.....Pam the Canuck




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

is it not illustrated., in several stories.,that they come from a possible underwater envoirenment.Maybe one of the moons of Jupiter., they breath oxygenated liquid ...their craft tavel under-water in a few episodes.[and seem to last longer ., rather longer than when in an atmosphere.mckenzie <[hidden email]> wrote: nice theory but I gotta blow holes in it, depending on
how long ago they came to sol system they could have
wiped us out long ago, if even in the 40's their tech
would have made mincemeat out of us,
my theory still is they picked up on us in the 1920's
when hilter did his broadcast or radio started,
discovered some minor means of ftl, throwing small
groups of ships as a vanguard,
they may have a base in sol system, to shoot the ships
back, but retconing it needs a little more
believability, i am sorry, not downing on you
there are small numbers of the invaders, maybe, we
know that though they are sterile they do have
different ages to them
trying to stay in the "theme" of the series is hard
so here is my take
and please point out errors
somehow a group of humans were taken off earth and
settles on centaurii, becuase there are few diseases
they blossom, using up all the natural resources they
can, and wasting probably their solar system
they begin to degenerate, unable to reproduce, they
work on longevity
then in the 1920's, or a little earlier,they pick up
radio or tv and discover this lost branch of man, they
crank up there tech and discover a way of "shooting"
small ships up to and past ftl, if einstein is right
there are still loopholes
as they enter the stronger influence of the sun they
need to bleed off the speed, maybe using a grav drive
they then take their biosamples and after leaving
earth and maybe just past the grav well of earth they
are able to jump up to speed, or have a "shooter
somewhere in the sol system,
the probe, which I dont remember the episode might be
using the same tech able to shoot small materials up
to past light speed

caverns, etc. A complete ----------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: steven mckenzie
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] the method of propulsion of the alien vehicles...

<snip>
>
>nice theory but I gotta blow holes in it, depending on
>how long ago they came to sol system they could have
>wiped us out long ago, if even in the 40's their tech
>would have made mincemeat out of us,.....
>
<snip>


------------------------------------------------------------------

Not really. You have the biological factor to factor in. They come here with their ship on it's last legs. They settle on the most convenient world they can utilize. Earth is farther in, and indeed enticing, and they DO plan on settling there eventually.

But here's the problem...earth is already inhabited, and the big problem is not necessarily the more primitive humans living there, it's all the other bacteria, germs, & diseases, & possibly the higher levels of solar radiation that close to the sun. They have a long way to go of research and genetic adaptation to immunize their population against all these alien bacterias and other environmental hazards on our earth.

Possibly, that is why they're sending all these small raiding parties here, to get live tissue samples, harvest organs & living organisms for research, and test out methods they've so far developed to immunize a few special landing crews. But the problem is a sticky one to solve for their entire race population. So I see no holes in my story theme, at least none that can't be dealt with thru normal literary license.

So maybe they could have defeated us military at first, but then the earth itself would have killed them, what good would that have done?

I believe when they can here, they didn't have all those little raider ships, just the big lumbering starship, which was already creaking from age & probably just adapted to long range transport & not warfare. They settled on Pluto, or whatever, scavaged the ship for all it's resources & technology, and used it to start building their underground homeworld & start their industrial base. Only then did they start making the smaller raiding party ships with their quite limited laser weaponry. I see them not as a huge unstoppable military force, but as a more advanced, but desperate race of beings working with a limited arsenal of, admitted higher technology, but of limited volume & capacity.

They are following a complete and methodical program of establishing themselves in the solar system, building up they're resources, researching their intended final homeworld, and then working the problem of how to adapt their entire race to it and then move in.

Dave H.


------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: steven mckenzie
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SHADO] the method of propulsion of the alien vehicles...


nice theory but I gotta blow holes in it, depending on
how long ago they came to sol system they could have
wiped us out long ago, if even in the 40's their tech
would have made mincemeat out of us,
my theory still is they picked up on us in the 1920's
when hilter did his broadcast or radio started,
discovered some minor means of ftl, throwing small
groups of ships as a vanguard,
they may have a base in sol system, to shoot the ships
back, but retconing it needs a little more
believability, i am sorry, not downing on you
there are small numbers of the invaders, maybe, we
know that though they are sterile they do have
different ages to them
trying to stay in the "theme" of the series is hard
so here is my take
and please point out errors
somehow a group of humans were taken off earth and
settles on centaurii, becuase there are few diseases
they blossom, using up all the natural resources they
can, and wasting probably their solar system
they begin to degenerate, unable to reproduce, they
work on longevity
then in the 1920's, or a little earlier,they pick up
radio or tv and discover this lost branch of man, they
crank up there tech and discover a way of "shooting"
small ships up to and past ftl, if einstein is right
there are still loopholes
as they enter the stronger influence of the sun they
need to bleed off the speed, maybe using a grav drive
they then take their biosamples and after leaving
earth and maybe just past the grav well of earth they
are able to jump up to speed, or have a "shooter
somewhere in the sol system,
the probe, which I dont remember the episode might be
using the same tech able to shoot small materials up
to past light speed

caverns, etc. A complete ----------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good points all, however, since they are basically
human and using our organs to upshore their systems,
adaptation would a less problem, they are even ahead
of our organ transplant systems now
also if a large group of them were here, they would
better serve themselves with all out attack, heck even
using a piece a debris to wipe the majority of pop and
bring us down to a more primitive tech system(we know
they do have quislings among us,)
in fact why even use earth at all except for organs
with what little we have seen of their tech, stay on
Mars or someoether planet and terraform,

their weapons tech for large systems are
different(maybe using the grav drive?) but they are
using projectile weapons for conflict resolution

I agree they are desparate but if they were all here
in a big setup, using a large raider fleet to wipe out
the pesky earthers' defense structure would be better,
wipeout moonbase and SID and take potshots at us from
out of the grav well, safe and secure,and keep
harvesting us

why just these small units?
because that is all they can transport at a time,

these being are smart but basically human
therefore my reason not a large force in our system
if the are all here even if after cannabalizing a
home/mothership, they able to keep producing the
raiders, doesnt make sense, if they are mining the
asteroids or something, would be easy to drop rocks,
lol
(in our XCOM BRP RPG, we evolved this after awhile and
retconned it alot)

if they have brought only a limited number of raiders
then a swift strike would still be best, let's face it
they are way ahead of our lunar base force, and
droping rocks or even shooting debris at moon would
make life easier, but they dont probably because they
cant
they don't have a appreciable force here
they are desparate but not stupid
so here is how I see it, we know the turna round is
at most a decade, from the first episode they were
able to determine an organ belonged to a
maincharcaters sister that disappeared a decade ago,
do they do surgury on the raiders, hmmm that is an
idea
no, I think they go back home or too a small setup
somehwere between home and here, but to guarantee
survival they would be somewhere safe, nowhere close
to us pesky earthers
we know that from the same episode not all of the
aliens are in the liquid the same amount of time,
are they searching elsewhere, maybe, but as strongly
as they are here, we are a great resource
they can produce only a limited amount of raiders and
are tossing them at us as they can, for resource
collection
they can't wipe us out as they dont have the
capability, they ae not here, not yet
>

hey this is fun, thank for the ideas, might see if the
group would like to remake the xcom game,lol
>
>
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>
>




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any really good spaceship makes a wonderful submarine,
lol
a liquid world, I thought the liquid would be more to
support them during de/acceleration, as do the
eyecaps, but if they have also lived around or in
centaurii light there might be bright, if in system,
or dim farther out

--- paul foster <[hidden email]> wrote:

> is it not illustrated., in several stories.,that
> they come from a possible underwater
> envoirenment.Maybe one of the moons of Jupiter.,
> they breath oxygenated liquid ...their craft tavel
> under-water in a few episodes.[and seem to last
> longer ., rather longer than when in an
> atmosphere.mckenzie <[hidden email]> wrote:
> nice theory but I gotta blow holes in it,
>





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Hi Dave - I've never read Raiders from the Rings but the idea of the aliens
setting up a base here in our system makes alot of sense. I touch on that in
one story I have on the SHADO Library - "The Red Dust of Mars". Pam the
Canuck

I think the points Dave made about coming to our system from a dying planet
makes sense in that it is not unlike what European humans did when they
discovered America and started moving into other continents over time. They
figured out how to move in and make it their home, but of course they didn't
wholesale kill off the natives already there - instead they used them for
slave labour, and a whole plethora of other NOT NICE ideas. I can see the
aliens plotting something quite similar about getting their paws on our
world - except of course they have a whole environment they would have to
adapt to - and perhaps that is part of their problem - they can't exactly
adapt to it as they'd like. It's still poisonous to them.

Pam the Canuck



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]